The Fake Drums Thread

[JD01]

OK - another hour listening to drum loops.

New Drums In A Mix 4.mp3

[JD01]

Think that's a definite step forward. Kick is still to clicky though.

[Greg_L]

Think that's a definite step forward. Kick is still to clicky though.

I think the snare is a little better. But I'm thinking through all this tinkering you've back-slid into a sound comfort zone because now it's starting to sound like your old drum program.

[JD01]

Think that's a definite step forward. Kick is still to clicky though.

I think the snare is a little better. But I'm thinking through all this tinkering you've back-slid into a sound comfort zone because now it's starting to sound like your old drum program.

I know what you mean. There's part of me that's trying to sound like it cos I know what I feel the mix is "supposed" to sound like. At the moment I'm going for something like my previous mix but better.

Any idea what I should do about the kick?

[Greg_L]

Any idea what I should do about the kick?

Not sure because I don't know what it sounds like raw and I don't know what you're doing to it.

[Greg_L]

And this is the big challenge for us faux drummers using "up market" program samples which are unprocessed - knowing what the fuck to do with them to get a good sound. Snare drums in particular because of their prominence.

I've used an indentical kit all the way through my Jongleurs remixing and no two tunes sound the same, or even close. And trying to get the exact combination of sound without the snare being like a kick in the head, or too roomy / splatty is just a nightmare.


Typically you have top mic, bottom mic, overhead and room outputs to deal with. Maybe it'd be a worthwhile exercise to just print the 4 outputs as .wav files and as a real drummer / engineer mix them and see what they came up with. I've pretty much dispensed with bottom mic and room but can never quite get the mix of nice sound for a snare without having either of the two probems above, especially once you take into account the 0-127 velocity thing.

And then if I accidentally to, I save the kit and copy it to the next song and it sounds completely different. Does my head in. Ii would so like to just be able to dial up a reasonable sound and stop wasting my life editing countless parameters in SSD4 trying to find the holy grail.

The same drums sounding different from song to song is a real thing even with real drums. When I track an album or EP's worth of drums at once, same room same mics same everything, I still can't just treat them the same in every song.

If yall wanna upload your individual raw drum tracks I'll give it a shot just to see what I can do with it. I've never seriously messed with drum samples. But without the rest of the music to go with it, it's not a very good exercise.

[JD01]

Not sure because I don't know what it sounds like raw and I don't know what you're doing to it.

And this is the big challenge for us faux drummers using "up market" program samples which are unprocessed - knowing what the fuck to do with them to get a good sound. Snare drums in particular because of their prominence.

I've used an indentical kit all the way through my Jongleurs remixing and no two tunes sound the same, or even close. And trying to get the exact combination of sound without the snare being like a kick in the head, or too roomy / splatty is just a nightmare.


Typically you have top mic, bottom mic, overhead and room outputs to deal with. Maybe it'd be a worthwhile exercise to just print the 4 outputs as .wav files and as a real drummer / engineer mix them and see what they came up with. I've pretty much dispensed with bottom mic and room but can never quite get the mix of nice sound for a snare without having either of the two probems above, especially once you take into account the 0-127 velocity thing.

And then if I accidentally to, I save the kit and copy it to the next song and it sounds completely different. Does my head in. Ii would so like to just be able to dial up a reasonable sound and stop wasting my life editing countless parameters in SSD4 trying to find the holy grail.

My main reason for wanting up upgrade my drum sound was my snare sound. It was doing my head in before.
The new snare sample I'm using is much nicer un-porcessed than the old one. It's also closer to what I want so I'm starting from a better point.

[WhiskeyJack]

OK - another hour listening to drum loops.

New Drums In A Mix 4.mp3

Drum sounds aside. I'm a hearing artifacts toontrack is notorious for with upgrades. not at all your fault it's just how it works. It's conjuring up my nightmares of upgrading from EZD to EZD2.

In this sample you posted for us, for instance there is a very audible difference in velocity / DB on your hi hats that changes there position in the mix. Reference: The pattern change between 0:02/0:003 and then back to the regular hi hat beat. At the 0.03 the hats sort of move to the back of the mix and then spring right back to where you had them.

When i upgraded to EZD2 from EZD all that that was a big problem for me. It came with more mixer channels and more kits to pick kit components from as well as more in the box libraries. I had also purchased a few kit extensions and those all responded wildly different to how EZD out put them out of the box. Once i started mixing and matching some of those things, a snare from the classic, with loops from modern collection and some loops from the classic or Nashville kits, none of the pieces played nicely among themselves, and the velocities and tones were ALL OVER THE PLACE!!! I think if i recall correctly you largely program your performance in the midi editor so it may not be as big of a problem for you as it was for me, but even just changing pieces of kit you will experience this. From loop to loop, kit to kit, piece sample to piece sample, depending on what library you pulled from you will in all likelihood start hearing these things as in this example with your hi hat.

I hope that makes sense?

TL;DR to take away from that is anywhere where you might have previously had velocity differences programmed or brought in from loops using the old stock EZD1 stuff on the same piece of kit you will now have to keep an ear out for as you change pieces of kit while remixing playing with pieces

Just food for thought.

[JD01]

That is weird, Armi.

Yeah, WJ, I've noticed the hi hat is a bit weird. I'll take a deeper look.

[paulman]

So I finally pulled the trigger and got the Roland TD27 kit. It plays great, and it works flawlessly with no latency running straight into the standalone version of SD3. There’s even a preset in the latest SD3 update for the TD27.

The problem is, when I use SD3 as a VST in Reaper, which is obviously how I’m going to actually use the drum set, there’s a horrible latency. Nothing I’ve tried yet has improved it. Anyone know how to fix this, or if it’s possible to import an audio file into standalone SD3 to play along with while recording MIDI on the drums? So far the latter doesn’t seem to be an option, but I’m having a hard time believing that they wouldn’t give you that option.

[Greg_L]

So I finally pulled the trigger and got the Roland TD27 kit. It plays great, and it works flawlessly with no latency running straight into the standalone version of SD3. There’s even a preset in the latest SD3 update for the TD27.

The problem is, when I use SD3 as a VST in Reaper, which is obviously how I’m going to actually use the drum set, there’s a horrible latency. Nothing I’ve tried yet has improved it. Anyone know how to fix this, or if it’s possible to import an audio file into standalone SD3 to play along with while recording MIDI on the drums? So far the latter doesn’t seem to be an option, but I’m having a hard time believing that they wouldn’t give you that option.

No clue for me. But I bet there's a simple fix. Every issue I've ever had in Reaper is easily resolved once I find it.

Maybe @Tadpui will know.

[Tadpui]

Wow that sucks @paulman . I've played into SD2/SD3 with an eKit pretty extensively over the last several years and I haven't had any issues with latency. The funny thing is, the standalone version has given me way more issues

The only times I have latency issues with Reaper is sometimes when I'm using ReaInsert on a few tracks, it'll get in some weird mode where the latency is out of control. But if I just press play and stop on the transport bar, it comes back to its senses.

What size of an ASIO buffer are you working with? And what is Reaper reporting in the upper right corner of the screen as far as latency?

[paulman]

Wow that sucks @paulman . I've played into SD2/SD3 with an eKit pretty extensively over the last several years and I haven't had any issues with latency. The funny thing is, the standalone version has given me way more issues

The only times I have latency issues with Reaper is sometimes when I'm using ReaInsert on a few tracks, it'll get in some weird mode where the latency is out of control. But if I just press play and stop on the transport bar, it comes back to its senses.

What size of an ASIO buffer are you working with? And what is Reaper reporting in the upper right corner of the screen as far as latency?

Hmm. Well, I opened up Reaper so I could answer your questions, but now it’s working fine. This time I just started with a blank file and opened up SD3, whereas the first time I was in an old mix that has a lot of other VSTs (such as a mammoth sampled piano) in it. So maybe that was the issue? But I wasn’t playing the song, so I didn’t think any of that would affect the latency of the drums. In any case, I’ve got some exploring to do.

Most of all, it’s time to practice! For now I’m using a shitty kick pedal that’s broken and won’t stay in place, but I have a DW 5000 single chain Accelerator arriving on Sunday, along with a better hi hat stand. So until then I’ll probably focus more on snare rudiments. Combined with SD3, it’s unreal how real this snare feels and sounds. Different depending on where you hit it on the head, very realistic soft strokes... It’s frigging gigantic, too.

[Tadpui]

Hmm. Well, I opened up Reaper so I could answer your questions, but now it’s working fine. This time I just started with a blank file and opened up SD3, whereas the first time I was in an old mix that has a lot of other VSTs (such as a mammoth sampled piano) in it. So maybe that was the issue? But I wasn’t playing the song, so I didn’t think any of that would affect the latency of the drums. In any case, I’ve got some exploring to do.

Most of all, it’s time to practice! For now I’m using a shitty kick pedal that’s broken and won’t stay in place, but I have a DW 5000 single chain Accelerator arriving on Sunday, along with a better hi hat stand. So until then I’ll probably focus more on snare rudiments. Combined with SD3, it’s unreal how real this snare feels and sounds. Different depending on where you hit it on the head, very realistic soft strokes... It’s frigging gigantic, too.

Well that's good to hear! Maybe try the play/stop thing if it happens again?

Listening back to everything that I recorded with my ekit into SD2 or SD3, it seems that the main mistake that I made was not setting the sensitivity or velocity curve so that I really had to whack it hard to get the top velocity. Man, it sounds like I'm getting a running start and jumping into the snare drum on all of my old stuff I bet if I look at the velocity of the snare hits, they'd just be a long list of 127, 127, 127, 127 That, and mixing in way too much of the room mics without compressing them.

That sounds like a great kick pedal. Have fun, man!

[paulman]

Well that's good to hear! Maybe try the play/stop thing if it happens again?

Listening back to everything that I recorded with my ekit into SD2 or SD3, it seems that the main mistake that I made was not setting the sensitivity or velocity curve so that I really had to whack it hard to get the top velocity. Man, it sounds like I'm getting a running start and jumping into the snare drum on all of my old stuff I bet if I look at the velocity of the snare hits, they'd just be a long list of 127, 127, 127, 127 That, and mixing in way too much of the room mics without compressing them.

That sounds like a great kick pedal. Have fun, man!

Yeah, I just finished setting velocity curves for a default SD3 setting. They’ll get tweaked more, I have no doubt. I am in love with the Ludwig Classic set on SD3. It’s probably going to be the base for most things I do.

[vomitHatSteve]

If you keep having latency issues, my dumb suggestion might be to use an interim drum for monitoring while you track. (probably a Reasamplomatic5k kit) Then import SD and drop the MIDI on it.

[paulman]

If you keep having latency issues, my dumb suggestion might be to use an interim drum for monitoring while you track. (probably a Reasamplomatic5k kit) Then import SD and drop the MIDI on it.

Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll keep it in mind, but hopefully I don’t have to use it.

[WhiskeyJack]

What a fantastic video.!!!!!

trying to use the mouse for the tap2find in EZD2 SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

this will be much handier and efficient.

[vomitHatSteve]

Y'know, I tried using the keyboard based midi input once, and I found it somehow just didn't feel as good as my hacky, circuit bent toy drum.

I should probably get used to the keyboard 'cause the toy is increasingly broken and finicky. (or I should get a real midi controller of some sort)

[WhiskeyJack]

Y'know, I tried using the keyboard based midi input once, and I found it somehow just didn't feel as good as my hacky, circuit bent toy drum.

I should probably get used to the keyboard 'cause the toy is increasingly broken and finicky. (or I should get a real midi controller of some sort)

Oh, I shan't be using it for anything of consequence. It's clunky, there is an odd little delay, no velocity control. It might be good for filling in some blanks here and there. I mostly just needed to find a better way to make use of EZD2's tap to find browse option. before i was using a mouse and most of the stuff i do is a bit faster tempo and this one is probably the fastest tempo i have ever worked with. very angry fast skatepunky kind of beat, and trying to do the tap 2 find with a mouse was driving meme nuts.

being able to hammer it out on the keyboard was a HUGE!!!! help. Not only that, it also allowed me to record some tapped out crude temp placement filler chunks right within the EZD plugin which i thought was pretty cool. I couldn't do that before. Will save time versus siting there going thru all my libraries looking for just the right fill to stick in there.

I'm sitting her typing this all out and just now realizing i have a korg nano pad in one of my storage boxes.