Operation: Make My Sparrow Rat Rod Gooder.

[Lt. Bob]

That will definitely handle soldering to the back of a pot. No problem.

It helps sometimes to scuff the back of the pot a little and melt a little puddle of solder by itself before you try to stick things into it. Then you just heat the puddle, add the wire to the wet puddle, remove the heat while holding the wire in the puddle. The solder will cool quickly and the wire will be frozen in time inside of it.

Yes ! I saw that on video. Was sort of part of my plan. Would a little bit of flux after scuffing help get the initial puddle or does that just sort of scorch the pot? I found on one other little thing i did the flux seemed to yellow and scorch the PCB board i was working with.

the flux doesn't scorch the circuit board .... the fux itself turns yellow and scorches.

IF you scuff the pot then there's no need for flux.
Flux is to clean the metal to make it more receptive to the solder.
Scuffed metal is fresh metal that doesn't really need flux.
I rarely use flux PLUS rosin core solder has built-in flux

What greg said is the way to go ... NOTE ... it's super important to not move the wire even one iota during the time it's cooling down ... 5-10 seconds ... if you move it the joint will get a dull grayish look and that is a bad solder joint.
If that were to happen .... simply reheat the joint

[Greg_L]

What Boob said.

Flux turns yellowish as it heats up. Totally normal.

If you have a clean soldering tip and a good pot surface you won't need any additional flux. But it doesn't hurt to add a little just to get things moving quickly. You don't want to superheat the guts of the pot so the faster you can get that solder melted, the better.

[muttley]

Also I most always solder to the side of the pots these days. I was told it helps the solder flow and the heat concentrates on the spot. Not sure if that is mechanically true but it seems to work., I never bend lugs onto pots I normally rum copper wire through the lug eye and then to the side of the pot. I think it ends up looking neater as well. and the pots are reusable, easier to clean off.

[WhiskeyJack]

What the actual fuck????




Why does everything take for ever to get to Canada?!?!?!?! honestly. I have talked to 8 people in the last two days that receive their stewmac orders in 3 days or less. It's been almost a week and my order hasn't fucking budged !!!?!?!?!

[Greg_L]

What the actual fuck????




Why does everything take for ever to get to Canada?!?!?!?! honestly. I have talked to 8 people in the last two days that receive their stewmac orders in 3 days or less. It's been almost a week and my order hasn't fucking budged !!!?!?!?!

Man, you need to shop local....as in within Canada. Surely there's some kind of parts shop within Canada's borders where there's no red tape to get things to you.

Side note, I always thought it was weird that a phone call or text from US to Canada is "international". Wtf. We're on the same continent. The only thing between us is an imaginary line. There is no great ocean or desert or impassable mountain range between the two countries. I could theoretically walk from the gulf of mexico to the friggin north pole and not have to do anything superhuman besides be able to walk a great distance. A cellular signal can make the trip even easier. Dumb.

[WhiskeyJack]

Man, you need to shop local....as in within Canada. Surely there's some kind of parts shop within Canada's borders where there's no red tape to get things to you.

Side note, I always thought it was weird that a phone call or text from US to Canada is "international". Wtf. We're on the same continent. The only thing between us is an imaginary line. There is no great ocean or desert or impassable mountain range between the two countries. I could theoretically walk from the gulf of mexico to the friggin north pole and not have to do anything superhuman besides be able to walk a great distance. A cellular signal can make the trip even easier. Dumb.

There totally is local places and in most cases i would ALWAYS shop local to keep the wife happy. However, this is partially my own doing. Karma biting me in the ass for buying outside of my own borders despite my wifes house rules haha!! I took advantage of a credit stewmac gave me a few weeks ago for the stewmax free shipping elite club bullshit thing being available to Canucks now. Mostly because they have a few things some of the local guys do not have. It still works out cheaper less the shipping cost but i guess i add years to my delivery time. Good thing no one is waiting on it. I think next time i will shop via solo music and nexxxt guitars though once my year of free shipping is over stew mac.

And i agree about that international thing. it's total bullshit. I would point a finger right at Canada for being responsible for that to!! Do you pay those rates when messaging or calling mexico? HaHa assuming you call anyone in mexico?

We have some of the stupidest rules and regulations regarding mobility usage. In terms of usage fees and mobility bills if we aren't paying the highest rates in the world here we are likely in the top three for sure.

[Greg_L]

There totally is local places and in most cases i would ALWAYS shop local to keep the wife happy. However, this is partially my own doing. Karma biting me in the ass for buying outside of my own borders despite my wifes house rules haha!! I took advantage of a credit stewmac gave me a few weeks ago for the stewmax free shipping elite club bullshit thing being available to Canucks now. Mostly because they have a few things some of the local guys do not have. It still works out cheaper less the shipping cost but i guess i add years to my delivery time. Good thing no one is waiting on it. I think next time i will shop via solo music and nexxxt guitars though once my year of free shipping is over stew mac.

Oh yeah, I remember you told me about the stewmac deal now. That makes sense to use it in that case.

And i agree about that international thing. it's total bullshit. I would point a finger right at Canada for being responsible for that to!! Do you pay those rates when messaging or calling mexico? HaHa assuming you call anyone in mexico?

We have some of the stupidest rules and regulations regarding mobility usage. In terms of usage fees and mobility bills if we aren't paying the highest rates in the world here we are likely in the top three for sure.

Man, in all my time in Tejas, I don't think I've ever called Mexico. 1) I don't speak any mexican-spanish. 2) No reason to call.

[WhiskeyJack]

stewmac package is sitting in Quebec.

Since the 20th.

[Greg_L]

stewmac package is sitting in Quebec.

Since the 20th.

Fucking Acadians!

That's pretty lame. Makes no sense.

[Lt. Bob]

Side note, I always thought it was weird that a phone call or text from US to Canada is "international". Wtf. We're on the same continent. The only thing between us is an imaginary line. There is no great ocean or desert or impassable mountain range between the two countries. I could theoretically walk from the gulf of mexico to the friggin north pole and not have to do anything superhuman besides be able to walk a great distance. A cellular signal can make the trip even easier. Dumb.

No .... just a way to grab money.
About 16 years ago wifey and I moved .... not far .... maybe 1/4 of a mile.
I wanted to keep my old number because that was the one piano-tuning customers knew.
But AT&T said I had crossed some line that made that impossible unless I paid an extra $70 a month to have some sort of 'special' number.
This must have been before the law was passed entitling you to keep your number.

So I went ahead and changed it.
but you know there was no reason they couldn't have given me the same number ...... they just viewed it as a chance to dick me.

[WhiskeyJack]

stewmac package is sitting in Quebec.

Since the 20th.

Fucking Acadians!

That's pretty lame. Makes no sense.

Meh maybe? Might be stuck in customs. Whatever.

[WhiskeyJack]

Alright. I took a kick a putzing around with the old bit tonight and i have some questions and observations.

Firstly the little helping hands station was worth every cent despite it being a teensy bit floppy and cheap components. I can only tighten the nuts so much before metal starts to bend. But it is still a huge help.

Desoldering is kind of whack. I mean its not bad if there isnt tiny little bits of old broken pieces of braided wire mixed in with the solder. I didnt bother with the pump but the copper desoldering braid was okish once i got the hang of it. Id be screwed if i was doing any kind of fine work though. Wow.

My questions now are how bad am i going to screw up a pot with too heat. Jow do i know if i have overdone it?! I noticed while i was trying trying to desolder these i could feel the heat and hot on the knurled ends of the pots where knobs go. If i were to guess i may have pooched the pot at this point?! I doubt ill over reuse these but never say never.

Next i dont know what the frig is going on or what i did but if you look in the last picture the solder almost looks crumbly?! What is happening there?!

I was going to practice tinning the pot and figured it wouldn't be that bad but for whatever reason it ended up looking like that? I thought maybe it wasnt hot enough so left the iron on the pot for a while and no matter how long i left it there it just ended up like that. I scuffed the back of the pot with a bit of ssndpaper maybe the solder was micing with some unseen sanding residue?! I didmt use the ungar or a chisel tip?! But even so out of frustratiom even whem put the solder right to the tip of the iron it still came out lookimg like thay crusty mess? All the old solder looked nice a shiny and melted pretty good as i was desoldering??

Any ideas @muttley or @Greg_L

Oh and the old caps were these:

[Greg_L]

That looks like cold solder to me. It's gonna dry smooth and shiny when done properly.

It's weird that you'd get the pot so hot that the knurled bit would be hot to the touch, but still get a cold solder joint. That's pretty hot, and yeah, you could damage the pot like that. It's not going to burst into flames or anything, but you could warp or burn the disc in there or break down the grease.

Try to get as much of the old crud off that you can. Start on fresh metal. Maybe add a little flux to the pot, clean and tin your tip really good, and try again. Try to melt a small clean glob onto the pot.

[muttley]

Thats looks like too much heat, you have oxidised the solder. Hard to tell as the colour in the pic could be misleading it could be cold solder as gerg says.... What he said is correct though. You need to get down to clean base metal to get the best result. Dont worry about mechanically scuffing them, I use a file, and then use a chisel tip and feed the solder onto the bare metal right next to the tip. One of the reasons I solder to the side of the pot is that is supposed to take heat away from the internal wipers. Not sure on the science of that though. If you check my soldering to the baseplates on pickups you will see some quite visible scuffing. Thats how it should be. You actually create more surface area and the heat stays local to that area for longer. Its all about getting right balance of speed and heat. You will get it.

If you have a multimetre you can check the pots are still viable. There are youtube vids on how to do that..

[muttley]

This is an OK tutorial. It covers the basics pretty well like what wattage iron is good. Its not exactly how I do it but each of us develops our own little ways. Thats what you are doing now... Stick at it.

[BBvideo=560,315]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHA4SLN4qeA[/BBvideo]

[WhiskeyJack]

Ok thanks guys. I may take another kick at it tonight. Maybe try to desolder it a bit more. And use the other iron i have with the chisel tip and stuff.

[mention]muttley[/mention] I saw you mention the side of the pots things andi had read it in a few other places too so i may try it. I was worried about the hot solder running all over the place but with these little helper hands jobies it might make it much easier.

I'll go at it again tonight.

[Greg_L]

I've never had a solder "too hot", even with my mega billion watt iron. Not saying it can't happen, I've just never done it. So that gross gray splatter could be overheated. If you use that much heat on a board or wires you'll melt stuff. Definitely try the chisel tip. It will spread the heat better for a pot.

Again, make damn sure the tip is cleaned and tinned. That simple step makes a massive difference in heat transfer. A dirty tip can struggle with soldering even two small wires together, forget soldering to a pot.

[WhiskeyJack]

I've never had a solder "too hot", even with my mega billion watt iron. Not saying it can't happen, I've just never done it. So that gross gray splatter could be overheated. If you use that much heat on a board or wires you'll melt stuff. Definitely try the chisel tip. It will spread the heat better for a pot.

Again, make damn sure the tip is cleaned and tinned. That simple step makes a massive difference in heat transfer. A dirty tip can struggle with soldering even two small wires together, forget soldering to a pot.

So that is the cool thing. I played with the little weller pencil guy i have and it's tip is the cleanest i have ever had. still shiny. I am chalking it up to the brass wooly stuff that came with the helping hands kit. It does a great job of keeping the tip clean. I am not using the damp sponge like i was in the past and it's remarkable the difference.

I'll send pics later. I am still trying to figure out wtf is up with my google photos. It says it is trying to back up 6700+ items and just hangs there doing nothing. nothing has been backed up since March 11th. Frustrating first world problems.

[muttley]

.........That simple step makes a massive difference in heat transfer. A dirty tip can struggle with soldering even two small wires together, forget soldering to a pot.

This. Essentially that soot is pure carbon and does not transfer heat. In fact its very good at deflecting it and sending it back where it came from. One very good way to burn out your tip... What are you using to clean the tip?

EDIT: Just seen above, Use a damp sponge.... then the second the brillo if you want to. I also "flick" the tip to remove excess but do that in a cardboard box to stop sending the stuff across the room.

[WhiskeyJack]

Ok back to this

I fired up the ungar as it has a bit more wattage and heat and a chisel tip on it and it went well-ish. I tried desoldering these more but its a huge pain i the ass if i am being honest. If these pots ever work again, great! If not off to the landfill. Ill test them though as i am sort of curious to see how they survived my prolonged high temps the other night.

I didn't really make an effrot on this go to make this look pretty with properly measured wire segments and better joint placement. This was merely an exercise in "can i do this" I promise the real thing will look way better.



Also that crusty grey stuff didnt melt really nice either. Is it possible i could have contaminated it somehow? I tested the chisel tip in some of the better shiny residual solder on another pot with the temp set at 371C. It responded as i anticipated. That grey crusty stuff with the same temp and settings barely did anything?! It got soft and appeared to become malleable, however it didn't melt, run or change its visual consistency?! Weird eh? Leave it to me to really bung something up super bad.

Moving on.

[mention]muttley[/mention] i think running the ground wires around the outside of the pots will be good. I ran my shitty practice wire around the edges of these pots fairly painlessly and to my surprise not much material ran around or dripped like i thought it would.



The scuffing worked good i guess. It did seem to heat up and make the solder flow faster than the other night but i don't know how much of that was the choice of iron/heat/tip or the scuffing. Safe to assume all advice given thus far, I am sure it is a healthy mix of all factors that produced a more speedy result?!



Oh and i spent an extra 10 bucks on these little heat sinks to protect my new orange drops and whatever else. [mention]Greg_L[/mention] didn't seem to think i needed them when i asked but i figured why not. Then i have them for later on if i ever decide to try more in depth stuff.



Ok. Im off to test fit the new pots and make a workflow on how to get all this sorted. I got long shaft cts pots based on some reading but the pots that were in it previous were little standard length (3/4"?) alpha pots. I guess i have to muck about with an nut and lock washer on the inside of the cavity before putting all the pieces together externally.