Miners "Ripper" Twin-Blade pup...

[muttley]

A lot of you will know that minerman has been planning on a set of pups to go in a revived strat mod..

Well after much discussion in the other thread and some PM exchanges we are good to go..

First off is a twin blade bucker to go in a strat neck slot. Its going to be paired with a fairly standard bucker in the bridge. So we can get an idea of where to aim the bucker we are going to spin up the blade pup first to see what output we can comfortably achieve and work the bucker to match. Miner doesnt want overly hot but we do want the two to work together.

We are calling this one "The Ripper" for now inspired by the beast of a machine that he used to handle when ripping stuff out of the ground. Ive seen pics its hardcore, I hope we can do it justice...

For now I have started by spinning up a dummy coil to see what sort of output I can get with the bobbing scatter wound without too much tension on it.

The pic below shows that 4500 turns is comfortable and gives an out put a gnats cock short of 4k so I'm going to push the next coil a bit more and see if I can get that up a bit, then we have a range to work in...

Hang in there...

dummycoil2.jpg

[Bubba]

Nice, I'll be watching this one.

[Greg_L]

Awesome. Intrigued.

[muttley]

OK I got 5000 turns on a bobbin and this is what we get from the two linked up in series. A total out put of....

dummycoil3.jpg

5000 turns is about as far as I'd want to go with standard 42 awg copper. Anymore and we'd be talking 44 awg and then we are moving into telecaster territory.. I'll experiment with that later..

So miner, we can get a max output of 9k I recon but if you want them not too hot we should maybe aim fro a little less. That way we can get a decent vintage PAF or classic 57 wind on the bucker... None of them too hot and they should play nice..

Let me know your thoughts and I'll jump on it.

[muttley]

Cooking on gas now..

Mounted the two coils on a baseplate and connected up some 4 conductor and she's alive. 8.5K..

I need to epoxy glue the bobbins and magnets in place now so its going to be tomorrow before this goes in a guitar for testing but we are pretty much there with the test coils... I'm going to knock up a scratchplate so this can go in the new LP jnr for testing. More later..

dummycoil5.jpg

[Minerman]

A lot of you will know that minerman has been planning on a set of pups to go in a revived strat mod..

Well after much discussion in the other thread and some PM exchanges we are good to go..

First off is a twin blade bucker to go in a strat neck slot. Its going to be paired with a fairly standard bucker in the bridge. We are calling this one "The Ripper" for now inspired by the beast of a machine that he used to handle when ripping stuff out of the ground. Ive seen pics its hardcore, I hope we can do it justice...

First off, I apologize for the long-ass post that's coming, but I'm really excited about this guys...

Since my username is Minerman, & that's actually what I once was, I wanna somehow name these p'ups after the 2 different types of remote-controlled continuous miners I ran the better part of 15 years...

One was a Joy 14-15CM, commonly called a "hard-head" because of it's solid cutter barrels...This was an absolute beast of a machine with an 11' 6" wide cutter-head, about 35' long, weighing about 35-40 or so tons, running on a 1,000 volt cable, along with a 2" waterline to keep the motors cool...

The other was a Joy 14-10, commonly called a "mat-chain" or "ripper-chain" miner because it had a 3' wide chain driven cutter head...
The main difference is the chain-driven cutter head (you can see the chain in the center of the barrels), & the motors were a little smaller, so it was a little lighter, but the dimensions were basically the same...

Just looking at 'em there wasn't much difference, & both again, were beasts...But the "hard-head" 14-15 would absolutely bury the 14-10 production-wise...

So, I'd like to call the bridge p'up a "hard-head", & the neck a "mat-chain/ripper-chain", or something similar, as long as it's cool with our resident Guru, Mr. Muttley...There's nothing decided for sure, so the names may change to a combination of the model # (14-15/14-10) with some little reference/hint name...

I made a little pic of the machines I operated/ran all those years, plus threw a few of me with 'em to give you guys an idea of what those things were like, & show just how big & beastly they really are...

The pic where I'm standing was taken outside the night before we took my new, $1.5 million dollar toy underground...


I know all this sounds pretty silly, but I'll have coal dust in my veins until I die guys...I was a 3rd generation coal miner for 25+ years, & I'm very proud of what I did all that time...Believe it or not, there are things I really miss about it, even if all those years in all that dust, noise & danger are a big part of why I'm so fucked up physically now...

Cooking on gas now..

Mounted the two coils on a baseplate and connected up some 4 conductor and she's alive. 8.5K..

That actually sounds pretty good to me Mutt, I've been looking at different p'up specs & a couple of my favorites from years past were in that range...They were just a little hotter, but I think the 8.5-ish k might be the ticket...Once you get the neck sorted, I'm assuming you'll match the bridge p'up's output to the neck...

Way cool, this is something I've wanted to do for a long time, & it's way past due...This will be almost like getting a whole new guitar...
I'm stoked!!!

[Greg_L]

Those machines are fucking beasts!

[Minerman]

Those machines are fucking beasts!

Yes dude, to say the least...Funny thing is, to be considered a "minerman" you have to be able to use that thing to cut entries/rooms within an inch or two for the width, depth, & especially, the height...95% of the places I worked had to cut rock (the roof) to clear all the equipment because the coal seam was small, so it actually took some finesse to do it right...

Here's what it'd look like if you were sitting with me while I was cutting a place:


If any of you guys have any suggestions about the name of these p'ups, please, feel free to do so...

[rayc]

Big machines, great looking pups and, as an aside, I can't believe they are suppressing "black lung" reports in the US!!!

[Tadpui]

Looking great, fellas! That's about the same wind that I'd be after, from what I understand.

[Minerman]

Finally ordered my parts, so it's just the waiting game now...

Mutt suggested I ask you guys here for different wiring ideas, so feel free to suggest ideas...

What I have on the way are 500k push/pull pots (for the coil tap thing), regular 500k pots, some mini-toggles (on/off, split/off/humbucker), .022 caps, a 3-way switch & a blank pickguard...

I think the last version I'd mentioned to Mutt was 2 volume, one tone, & a 3-way mini-toggle for each p'up...The mini-toggle would be split coil/off/humbucker...But it may be better to use the push/pull pots for the coil tap, & a 3-way selector switch, so I'm on the fence for now...

So if any of you have any suggestions,, again feel free to do so...

As the days pass, I'm getting more & more excited about this, like a little kid waiting for his birthday present...

[Greg_L]

So you're going to coil tap and split those pickups?

[muttley]

So you're going to coil tap and split those pickups?

There are no taps just coil splits. As you probably know there would be little worth is splitting a humbucker coil as there just aint enough wire on there...

I think what miner is after is suggestion as to how to best get the things hooked up. I have advised him that essentially they are two humbuckers, a standard PAF in the bridge and a fairly medium twin rail in thew neck. I know how I would do it but miner was looking out for suggestions about how you guys might approach it as he has a blank pickguard and switching options with push pull and/or mini switches...

Miner, are you sure the mini toggles you have got are 3 position on/off/on and not the more common on/on? Would make a difference..

[muttley]

Right, I put this test pup in a guitar today and I have to say it's a belter... I love it. Its fat, chunky, full sounding both split and humcancelling. It breaks up easily when you add gain and it makes a strat a guitar I could use again... I'm gonna make me three of these for my strat and ditch those wimpy duck farts that normally go in a strat... Gerg, even you would love these..

Miner, as you wanted them not too hot I'm gonna dial it in a bit and reduce the out put to about 7.5K (this thing is hot) and make the bridge bucker about the same. That should work. As always if it dont work out right we will have another go... Have to say I'm pretty made up about how this has turned out. Ive made a few before but never heard them back as they went out straight away...

Let me know.

[muttley]

Finally ordered my parts, so it's just the waiting game now...

Mutt suggested I ask you guys here for different wiring ideas, so feel free to suggest ideas...

What I have on the way are 500k push/pull pots (for the coil tap thing), regular 500k pots, some mini-toggles (on/off, split/off/humbucker), .022 caps, a 3-way switch & a blank pickguard...

I think the last version I'd mentioned to Mutt was 2 volume, one tone, & a 3-way mini-toggle for each p'up...The mini-toggle would be split coil/off/humbucker...But it may be better to use the push/pull pots for the coil tap, & a 3-way selector switch, so I'm on the fence for now...

So if any of you have any suggestions,, again feel free to do so...

As the days pass, I'm getting more & more excited about this, like a little kid waiting for his birthday present...

One way would be to use the push pull for the coil splits and use a 5 way selector, three positions for neck, bridge, and combined and the last two for series and parallel... Would be a challenge but doable..

[Greg_L]

I see.

I think you should use the push/pulls to split the humbuckers, and use a normal 5-way Strat selector for all of the normal pickup configurations.

[Minerman]

I think what miner is after is suggestion as to how to best get the things hooked up. I have advised him that essentially they are two humbuckers, a standard PAF in the bridge and a fairly medium twin rail in thew neck. I know how I would do it but miner was looking out for suggestions about how you guys might approach it as he has a blank pickguard and switching options with push pull and/or mini switches...

Yes, I was just wondering about how some of you guys would go about wiring it up...I'm settled on coil taps (splits... ) for both p'ups & some kind of switch(es) for the p'up selection...I have a few different switches on the way, plus the 5-way that's still in the guitar...

The bottom line is I want to be able to split both p'ups, have the ability to use 'em both split and/or full humbucker at the same time...

Miner, are you sure the mini toggles you have got are 3 position on/off/on and not the more common on/on? Would make a difference..

Yes sir Mr. Muttley, I ordered a couple of each so I'd have some options to mess with, plus I might need some of the parts left over for another project...

Right, I put this test pup in a guitar today and I have to say it's a belter... I love it. Its fat, chunky, full sounding both split and humcancelling. It breaks up easily when you add gain and it makes a strat a guitar I could use again... I'm gonna make me three of these for my strat and ditch those wimpy duck farts that normally go in a strat... Gerg, even you would love these..

Miner, as you wanted them not too hot I'm gonna dial it in a bit and reduce the out put to about 7.5K (this thing is hot) and make the bridge bucker about the same. That should work. As always if it dont work out right we will have another go... Have to say I'm pretty made up about how this has turned out. Ive made a few before but never heard them back as they went out straight away...

Let me know.

The output seems about right Mutt, of course, we won't know until I get to try 'em myself, but again, it should be good...

One way would be to use the push pull for the coil splits and use a 5 way selector, three positions for neck, bridge, and combined and the last two for series and parallel... Would be a challenge but doable..

I've never had a guitar with the series/parallel thing that I can remember, what are the advantages??? I know it would change the tone, but I'm looking for a description, if that's possible...

I think you should use the push/pulls to split the humbuckers, and use a normal 5-way Strat selector for all of the normal pickup configurations.

I may go that route Greg except for the 5-way...Not sure if the series/parallel thing would be utilized with a ham-fisted string-banger like myself, but you never know...
I have a 3-way LP style switch on the way too, so I've got some options...

My parts won't be here probably til Monday, Mutt isn't done on his end, then it'll take a little while to throw 'em across the pond, so I've got some time to think it over...

The cool thing is the blank pickguard, I can put the controls about anywhere I'd want...I like where the "old" volume knob is right now, it's easy to roll up/down & I'd want the neck volume knob to be in a similar spot...

[muttley]

Yes, I was just wondering about how some of you guys would go about wiring it up...I'm settled on coil taps (splits... ) for both p'ups & some kind of switch(es) for the p'up selection...I have a few different switches on the way, plus the 5-way that's still in the guitar...

OK, just to get the terminolgy right. A coil split is when you use just one coil of a twin coil pup. A coil tap is when you use just part of a single coil. Its a common thing to substitute the two terms but they are very different things. TRhats what gerg was confused about. We are coil splittting.

The bottom line is I want to be able to split both p'ups, have the ability to use 'em both split and/or full humbucker at the same time...

Thats entirely possible. Strange as it sounds you need to stop thinking about this guitar as a strat and start thinking Les Paul. You will have two humbuckers both of which can be coil split. I assume you will be doing away with the middle pup? You mentioned that somewhere. If you intend to keep it dont worry you just need to hook that up to a five way in traditional strat fashion...

Yes sir Mr. Muttley, I ordered a couple of each so I'd have some options to mess with, plus I might need some of the parts left over for another project...

OK, thats fine.. I would still go with a push pull for the coil split and a 3 or 5 way selector for the pup selection.

The output seems about right Mutt, of course, we won't know until I get to try 'em myself, but again, it should be good...

I'm still going to step it down a bit. What I have got here on the test pup is live as anything.. really hot.. The other option is for me to put an Alnico 2 in there which will give a bit of vintage vibe to it. I think a combination of the two is the way to go...

I've never had a guitar with the series/parallel thing that I can remember, what are the advantages??? I know it would change the tone, but I'm looking for a description, if that's possible...

Think Peter Green's tone for humbuckers...

The cool thing is the blank pickguard, I can put the controls about anywhere I'd want...I like where the "old" volume knob is right now, it's easy to roll up/down & I'd want the neck volume knob to be in a similar spot...

One thing to keep in mind is that you will want as far as possible to make sure those switches and knobs fit into the existing guitar route. That would save you a lot of messing about...

tl/dr

Dont think strat anymore think Les Paul.
Work out how many options you have and that is how many switching options you need.
Keep it as simple as possible to fit it all in. Push pull are you friend and so is a selector switch...

[Minerman]

OK, just to get the terminolgy right. A coil split is when you use just one coil of a twin coil pup. A coil tap is when you use just part of a single coil. Its a common thing to substitute the two terms but they are very different things. TRhats what gerg was confused about. We are coil splittting.

Just to let you know, if Gerg was confused, he ain't the only one...Thanks for the explanation, & sorry for calling it a coil tap, that's just what I've always called 'em...

Thats entirely possible. Strange as it sounds you need to stop thinking about this guitar as a strat and start thinking Les Paul. You will have two humbuckers both of which can be coil split. I assume you will be doing away with the middle pup? You mentioned that somewhere. If you intend to keep it dont worry you just need to hook that up to a five way in traditional strat fashion...

Middle p'up will be left out dude...I know it ain't gonna be a strat anymore, that's the whole idea, but I still want to be able to have the single coil sounds...

OK, thats fine.. I would still go with a push pull for the coil split and a 3 or 5 way selector for the pup selection.

I'm leaning toward the 3-way just because it'd be a little simpler to wire up...I'm also leaning toward the 3-way because of how it would look, even though that doesn't matter...

I'm still going to step it down a bit. What I have got here on the test pup is live as anything.. really hot.. The other option is for me to put an Alnico 2 in there which will give a bit of vintage vibe to it. I think a combination of the two is the way to go...

Think Peter Green's tone for humbuckers...

I trust your judgement Mutt, & you already know I don't want 'em super hot, so you do what you think would be the best out of my vague description...
I know who he is & all, but I'm gonna have to check out some of his tunes...

One thing to keep in mind is that you will want as far as possible to make sure those switches and knobs fit into the existing guitar route. That would save you a lot of messing about...

tl/dr

Dont think strat anymore think Les Paul.
Work out how many options you have and that is how many switching options you need.
Keep it as simple as possible to fit it all in. Push pull are you friend and so is a selector switch...

I'd be more akin to call it a hot-rod tele...I had a USA Tele Plus II with about the same p'up configuration, the neck p'up was a single coil though...I wish I had it now to actually hear what it could do, but I snorted that thing up years ago...It sounded great to me back in the day...
Fender Lace Sensor p'ups, red in the bridge (I think it was actually 2 single coil p'ups), blue in the neck with a 3-way selector & coil split ...


I think the push/pull pots & a 3-way selector would be pretty simple, so again, right now that's what I'm leaning toward...

Thanks for all the info & your hard work Mutt, you truly are the forum Guru...

[Greg_L]

Yes coil tap and coil split are often interchanged and misused.

Coil tap just takes a signal from earlier in the wingding for less output.
Coil split actually splits a humbucker into either single coil.