Gut and refurb old ss combo

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WhiskeyJack
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by WhiskeyJack »

SweetDan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:48 am
WhiskeyJack wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:24 pm
...One of these things with a fresh blade?

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Sure, just use Jedi Mind Tricks. (Lightweight mental handle...ha!) ;)
I don't get the reference really but i am sure it's hilarious.


In another note I just checked the band in your signature and they feel like a midwestern American attempt at the Smith Street band from Aus. Interesting. Of all the SSB knock offs i have heard those guys kind almost get it right. I might check out a few more of their songs actually.
:happytrees:
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by Greg_L »

Lol @ lightweight mental handle.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Greg_L wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:56 pm Lol @ lightweight mental handle.
:spacepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm2:

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:happytrees:
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by Greg_L »

Okay the sticker-stencils are a terrible idea. Not working. I've painted and stripped and re-painted these damn panels three times now. Fuck this.

New plan....just fucking paint them white and write on them with a fucking sharpie.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by SweetDan »

WhiskeyJack wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:45 pm In another note I just checked the band in your signature and they feel like a midwestern American attempt at the Smith Street band from Aus. Interesting. Of all the SSB knock offs i have heard those guys kind almost get it right. I might check out a few more of their songs actually.
I'm building a collection -- viewtopic.php?t=1281 -- not of the bands, but of the comments. :)

Lots of people like to snarkily declare that youtube comments are a sign of the toxic cesspool that is humanity. I can't argue much, but I like to think that these "awesome youtube comments of the day" (which I don't actually gather every day, btw) show a brighter, funnier side of us.





Future readers: The related comment for the band to which @WhiskeyJack refers will be #34 when it is (was? will have been?) eventually replaced and goes into the "archive" thread linked above.
awesome youtube comment of the day
Bill and Ted time traveled and brought a bass player from 1973, a drummer from 1984 and a guitar player from 1995. Now they're spreading peace all over the world 🌎
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by Greg_L »

Okay fat bubble butts of progress being made at Assman HQ. It's slow-going having to basically fly blind as I literally shade-tree mechanic ways to fit a six tube Bassman circuit into a solid state chassis, but I think it's working out so far.

Test fitting placement of the board and main reservoir filter caps.
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The biggest bitch of it all....heater wiring is done.
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These next two show a little bit of the power supply and heater filament and center tap wiring. That little triple turret strip is the junction for the heater supply (green wires) and heater/high-voltage secondary center tap grounds at the center terminal. The main filter cap ground also goes to the center terminal. Normally I'd run those twisted green wires straight to the first power tube socket and then chain off from there down the line, but they wouldn't reach so I used a terminal strip to make the junction. The small red/black twisted pair that runs off from it will go to the pilot light. This is a major grounding point too. Lots happening at that one terminal strip. The two large capacitors on the left are the main power supply filter caps. They will be the first stage of power supply filtering for the whole fucking amp.
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These next two shitty blurry pics show the rest of the power supply all hooked up. The IEC power cord receptacle is wired in. The dedicated main power ground is bolted down all by itself, as per electrical safety code. The vertical fuse holder is wired up. Also you can see the speaker jacks wired in. That's the power supply and rear panel done.
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And lastly for the rear panel....the shitty looking totally halfass hand-written rear panel. Nothing back there but the power cord and speaker jacks. And of course...the name of the amp and the dumbshit that built it.
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Now onto the front panel which will not look much better.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by JD01 »

Looks like its really taking shape, mate.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:35 pm Looks like its really taking shape, mate.
Thanks I think it is. Now that all of the cutting and drilling and grinding and painting and mocking up and test fitting bullshit is mostly done I feel like I can just put it together now.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by rayc »

You are a very tidy man.
I'm sure Uncle Doug would approve.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by Greg_L »

rayc wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:20 pm You are a very tidy man.
I'm sure Uncle Doug would approve.
Haha maybe. I think he probably would approve turning something useless and junky into an actual good classic tube amp.

Being tidy has an advantage besides just looking good. When you're careful and methodical that means mistakes and problems are minimized. A good working amp is the result. Tidy and looking good is a byproduct of that. You just can't throw these things together and expect them to work. They're kind of like car engines - a million things have to go right for an engine to even run poorly. But get everything perfect and the engine will run properly. Same with an amp. The last thing I want to do is chase down a bunch of bullshit that could have been avoided in the assembly phase.

Speaking of hopefully avoiding bullshit later, here's today's progress....

I'm gonna assemble the front panel as much as I can before riveting it onto the chassis. Getting to the backs of these pots and jacks when it's installed is gonna be tricky on this amp.
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PPIMV - Post Phase Inverter Master Volume. I talk about them all the time. This is what it looks like.
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A good chunk of pot wiring in place. Everything is way longer than it needs to be for right now. I've still got to make the grounding buss and assemble the shielded cables from the jacks and stuff.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Okay finished wiring the front panel. I used more shielded cable than maybe necessary. I don't wanna take no chances with unwanted noise. Also, once again, I'm utilizing my floating ground rod setup. I like it and I think it works very well. All this wire is gonna snake into the amp and connect at the board when I fit the front panel. I'm thinking it'll be easier this way than reaching into the front of the amp to make all of these connections later - especially the shielded stuff. Shielded wire is a bitch.
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This isn't how I wanted to do the filter caps. I was hoping to hide them inside the chassis somewhere. There just isn't room to do it efficiently and cleanly inside the chassis. I probably could have arranged a way to fit them on the turret board, but it would have been really cramped up on that thing...or I would have had to use an extension board. No big deal. I installed some turret strips and put them outside the chassis like a billion other Fender amps have since the dawn of time. The only drawback to this is that I have super high voltage on those caps outside of the amp. That's why Fenders use a "doghouse" or a "cake pan" or whatever you wanna call it covering these things. Since this amp is mine and mine only I don't need to worry about it. They can stay exposed and I just need to not go grabbing under there once the amp is operational. Not very safe for the user, but I'm the user and I'll take my chances. If this was for someone else there would absolutely be a cover over these capacitors. Maybe I'll cover them anyway. For now it's fine. I'm also gonna do a grounding experiment. Each cap has it's own black grounding wire and I'm grounding each filter cap with it's respective part of the circuit instead of just running everything to one ground point. The screen filter node will ground with the main power supply. The PI node will ground with the PI stuff. The preamp filter nodes will ground with their respective cathode grounds. This is technically and electrically the correct way to do it. We'll see how it works.
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And now with a spaghetti mess of wires running everywhere, pretty much everything underside is done and in place to start assembling the board. It looks like a mess, and it is, but I know what's going on. It's not that bad. I think it's gonna work.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by Tadpui »

Looks nice and tidy, man. The exposed caps do make me nervous though :)

Looking forward to hearing this beast!
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by Greg_L »

Tadpui wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 4:37 pm Looks nice and tidy, man. The exposed caps do make me nervous though :)

Looking forward to hearing this beast!
Thanks. Yeah those exposed external caps are not ideal and I should and probably will do something about it. They probably won't actually kill you but they can shock the fucking shit out of you once they're energized. The cap cover does nothing to protect the caps. They don't need protection. The cap cover is there to protect the user. Under normal operating conditions on this amp there's gonna be probably around 425 volts DC on the yellow wire. The red and blue wires will have a little less. But all of it can and will zap the shit out of you if you touch it.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by JD01 »

Is there a way you can plug it in and test it when it's all still in bits on the bench? So you can test it before it's fully built.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:56 am Is there a way you can plug it in and test it when it's all still in bits on the bench? So you can test it before it's fully built.
You can, sort of, kind of, not really, although there's not much to learn from doing so that you couldn't learn from just using a multimeter. At this point in my build I'm just avoiding shorts to ground. I'm looking for zero-loss continuity across that long ass heater filament twisted string. I'm looking for rock-solid connections. I'm checking resistor values. I can use a multimeter to test that stuff. Plugging in and powering on an unloaded unfinished amp isn't really something you'd do unless you are deep into tracing down a problem.

But once it's finished there is a step-by-step start-up procedure that you need to go through. That's where you can find problems before they hurt something in the amp. I'll try to detail that part of it when I get there.

Optional reading, this is gonna get a little techy:

Sort of related to testing and related to my last post, I made this to kind of generally explain filter caps and power nodes in a tube amp if anyone wants to learn something. This is my schematic. The colored circles outline the various power nodes. A power node is rectified DC voltage that supplies DC voltage to various parts of an amp. This voltage starts as AC from the wall, gets stepped up in the power transformer, gets rectified to DC voltage through the tube rectifier or diodes (Green Box) and then can get used by the amp. The rectified DC voltage supply is what is commonly called "B+ voltage", or just "B+", or sometimes "H.T." We'll call it B+. This B+ voltage goes everywhere and different parts of the amp need different amounts of it. B+ voltage travels from node to node and it's usually stepped down in stages as it travels from node to node. There are resistors in line along the B+ supply to drop voltage because not every part of the amp wants full B+ voltage.
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So what happens is once our wall power is stepped up and rectified to DC, it should be a straight smooth DC signal of high voltage. But it isn't. It's still got some ripples in it. It's imperfect. And it "sags" from being used throughout the amp. That's where the first filtration stage comes in. On the schematic I've circled this in red. Those first two filter caps get charged up and they store electrons. They're kind of like batteries, in a way. These caps serve two purposes, 1) the stored electrons fill in the ripples left in the B+ after rectification, and 2) they are sort of like back up power to keep things running smooth when you hit a massive crunchy power hogging E chord. So you can see them circled in red on the schematic, and here's where I put mine in practice.
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So that's the first stage filter cap node...or "reservoir caps" as they're commonly called. They are like a reservoir of electrons. On the schematic they are before the standby switch, so they are always "on". If the amp power is on, these guys are getting charged up. But what about the other caps? They are after the standby switch. On the schematic we see that after the reservoir caps there is the standby switch and then the choke - ignore the choke for now - and the B+ line splits. Part of it goes to the output transformer center tap to supply full filtered B+ voltage to the OT. This is the high voltage you see on the plates of output tubes. We're not concerned with that for this. The B+ line also splits off to the left and we come to another filter node, circled in yellow. This one is for the output tube screens. They need clean filtered high voltage for happy output tubes. So then as we move along that B+ line on the schematic we get to a zig-zag...that's a resistor. It's a dropping resistor I mentioned earlier. It's a 4700 ohm 1 watt resistor. This drops the voltage in the B+ line. And then we get to yet another filtered node, circled in dark blue. This one feeds our dropped DC voltage to the tube plates for the phase inverter. We don't want any electrical ripple on any tube plates, so pretty much anywhere plates are getting DC, there is a filter node attached to it. And again, we move on down the line and get to yet another dropping resistor (my MS Paint circles hide it, but it's 27K) and another filter node, this one circled in pink. This one has a "C" next to it on the schematic and that simply means they broke the drawing and we'll pick it up elsewhere. To the far bottom left you can see the Normal Channel preamp section. At the bottom you see a little "C" and that's where the drawing picks up again. That pink node on the "C" line filters and supplies the B+ voltage for the Normal Channel.

So now all that's left to supply power to is the bass channel. Instead of just moving down the line and powering the Bass Channel after the Normal Channel, they did something different. The Bass Channel filter node is circled in light blue. On the schematic it's broken off similar to the Normal Channel, and there is a little "B" on the drawing. If we go back and find a corresponding "B" we can see that it goes all the way back to the very first post-standby node....the yellow screen supply node. This is a really high voltage node that they're tapping off of to feed the Bass Channel. That voltage is way too high for typical 12AX7 preamp tubes, which is what this amp will use, so if you go back to the light blue circled Bass channel node you'll see it's dropping resistor is a whopping 56K. That poor resistor is gonna eat some voltage so the Bass Channel can use that B+ and not melt tubes. My assumption is Fender designed it this way for minimal sag since that is a "Bass" channel. But I'm not sure.

Any-fucking-way....that's how B+ gets used in an amp and how it's filtered for smooth DC voltage. All of those power nodes and all of those capacitors are how tubes get clean smooth power to make beautiful sounds.

And lastly, this is how it applies to my build. This little bundle of caps, resistors, and wires are my filter cap nodes, the corresponding dropping resistors, and the wires that go to feed the various parts of the amp.
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If you read and understood all this, kudos to you. :not worthy: :illdrinktothat:
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by JD01 »

Where's thar Budd Dwyer gif?
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:56 pm Where's thar Budd Dwyer gif?
You don't want that one. :eep:

I think you mean the Scanners gif.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by JD01 »

Greg_L wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:59 pm
JD01 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:56 pm Where's thar Budd Dwyer gif?
You don't want that one. :eep:

I think you mean the Scanners gif.
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Thats probably more appropriate.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:34 pm
Thats probably more appropriate.
It's a lot of unnecessary info if you never plan to get inside an amp. :lollers2:
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by rayc »

Ah, instead of nodes placed in relatively close proximity to the point they're feeding you've made them remote, centralized and reduced the length of B+ wire snaking about sending appropriately stepped power from a centralized point. Transformer to Quadzilla to point of use via neatly braided cables that reduce EMI & other issues as they go AND an Earth bus to bring it all home neatly as well.
Tidy mind!
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