New Honey Hunters - 18, Emilie

[Armistice]

Hey ho. First completed track for almost a year. I'm doing what I normally do and piling up a bunch of musically complete but with no lyrics/singing tunes, so now I'll switch to singing / finalising.

What most of these tracks will have in common is that they (a) were written on an acoustic guitar (b) using a selective capo - a device which capos only some of the strings. Interesting device. Means you can't actually play these songs without it - simply retuning the guitar gets you a different effect and wouldn't sound the same. This one has the capo on the 2nd fret on the A, D and high E strings - so an Em chord, basically. After recording the acoustic parts I layer stuff on top, as per normal Honey Hunters method.

Be gentle with me...

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Version 5

18 Emilie v5.mp3

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18, Emilie

Read about you in the newspaper the other day Emilie, it’s been a long, long time since then
I don’t remember hearing your name at the time, I remember the place, not the when
And I know I shouldn’t have to say, that the world shouldn’t be this way
It was in America, it’s always in America, they said this must never happen again
They said we can fix this if we really want to fix this, we just need some strength and a pen
And I know I shouldn’t have to say, that this is just the price you had to pay

You could have been 18, Emilie
You should have been 18, Emilie
You would have been 18, Emilie
You should have been 18, Emilie
We light a candle for the life you’d lead

I don’t remember his name, I don’t want to remember his name, don’t want to know what it is
If I must have memories of things like this then they should be yours and not his
And I know I shouldn’t have to say, that the world shouldn’t be this way
All this time later they were talking to your father, who told of the hardness of years
All I know Emilie is life can be long but for you it just disappears
And I know I shouldn’t have to say, that this is just the price you had to pay

You could have been 18, Emilie
You should have been 18, Emilie
You would have been 18, Emilie
You should have been 18, Emilie
We light a candle for the life you’d lead
18, Emilie
18, Emilie
18, Emilie


If you're wondering what that's all about, Emilie Parker was a 6 year old girl killed at Sandy Hook 12 years ago. She would now have been 18. Saw the story in the newspaper the other day and thought it was a good basis for a song.

[vomitHatSteve]

An older man singing about an 18 year old girl, eh?

I figured it was about a school shooting from the lyrics, but the tragedy is that we have so many of the damn things I had no idea which one it would be. Around this time last year, I did a shitpost album of one song per mass shooting event in the country that year that was relevant enough to merit a wikipedia page. It was 21 tracks long, and if friggen sucks

Anyway, the song. Sounds good. About your normal standards. No obvious burrs on a first listen.

[Armistice]

An older man singing about an 18 year old girl, eh?

I figured it was about a school shooting from the lyrics, but the tragedy is that we have so many of the damn things I had no idea which one it would be. Around this time last year, I did a shitpost album of one song per mass shooting event in the country that year that was relevant enough to merit a wikipedia page. It was 21 tracks long, and if friggen sucks

Anyway, the song. Sounds good. About your normal standards. No obvious burrs on a first listen.

6 year old, really... Thanks for the listen. The peeps at HR think I need to up the lead vocal a little and perhaps add some top end, so I'll investigate that. Always hard to readjust your ears after a long absence.

[JD01]

I think the lead vocal sound good, its nicely stacked against the backings.
The one thing that does jump out is the very clean lead electric lead arpeggios, they sound great in isolation, but they smother the lead vocal a bit - you could probably get away with them being a fair bit quieter.

Acoustic sounds lovely.

Usual comment about your drum programming - bit busy on the snare without enough variation in velocity, there's some that sounds like they should be ghost notes.
Listening to a couple of the snare roll fills - it sounds like they're being played with one hand, you know what I mean? They need to "roll" a bit more.

[Lt. Bob]

that's a very good song ..... the vocals are kinda buried and they're the important part (harmonies too ) .... dunno about it needing more high end though ..... sounds fairly balanced tonewise to me.
I actually like the drumbs a lot ... interesting groove ...... that little 3-hit jump thing you're doing with the snare might be very cool if it were the snare and then a couple of toms .... same exact timing but snare then tom and lower tom

[Armistice]

I think the lead vocal sound good, its nicely stacked against the backings.
The one thing that does jump out is the very clean lead electric lead arpeggios, they sound great in isolation, but they smother the lead vocal a bit - you could probably get away with them being a fair bit quieter.

Acoustic sounds lovely.

Usual comment about your drum programming - bit busy on the snare without enough variation in velocity, there's some that sounds like they should be ghost notes.
Listening to a couple of the snare roll fills - it sounds like they're being played with one hand, you know what I mean? They need to "roll" a bit more.

Thanks. I've turned down the main clean guitars just a bit and done some in-track volume envelope work to make the lead clearer in spots, then just nudged it up a little.

I've been through the entire drum program - the snare hits vary a lot in different sections as the song builds and releases, but the main on-beat hits in any section are the same volume plus or minus one or two because why would you do anything else. Where I have multiple hits close together - rolls and builds - I've gone in and done some adjusting of things to give it a bit more variety - volumes, different hits etc, so hopefully that sounds better now.

Cheers

[Armistice]

that's a very good song ..... the vocals are kinda buried and they're the important part (harmonies too ) .... dunno about it needing more high end though ..... sounds fairly balanced tonewise to me.
I actually like the drumbs a lot ... interesting groove ...... that little 3-hit jump thing you're doing with the snare might be very cool if it were the snare and then a couple of toms .... same exact timing but snare then tom and lower tom

Thanks LT - if you want to time-mark what little 3 hit thing you're talking about for me, I'll go in and have a look see. Done a bit already based on JD's feedback above to bring the vocals out. Thanks for the listen.

[Armistice]

New mix up in the OP. Cheers

[Lt. Bob]

that's a very good song ..... the vocals are kinda buried and they're the important part (harmonies too ) .... dunno about it needing more high end though ..... sounds fairly balanced tonewise to me.
I actually like the drumbs a lot ... interesting groove ...... that little 3-hit jump thing you're doing with the snare might be very cool if it were the snare and then a couple of toms .... same exact timing but snare then tom and lower tom

Thanks LT - if you want to time-mark what little 3 hit thing you're talking about for me, I'll go in and have a look see. Done a bit already based on JD's feedback above to bring the vocals out. Thanks for the listen.

I would have no idea how to time mark anything plus it's constant .... it's the snare part that runs throughout the song and the part I'm talking about is basically every other measure.
It's that syncopation on the snare that's constantly there over and over .... it sorta creates the feel of the song

I like it .... it's cool ... but I could also see a drumber playing it on the toms. .... a couple of upbeats and then a third .... you could replace the second upbeat with a tom and the third with a lower tom

[Armistice]

Thanks LT - if you want to time-mark what little 3 hit thing you're talking about for me, I'll go in and have a look see. Done a bit already based on JD's feedback above to bring the vocals out. Thanks for the listen.

I would have no idea how to time mark anything plus it's constant .... it's the snare part that runs throughout the song and the part I'm talking about is basically every other measure.
It's that syncopation on the snare that's constantly there over and over .... it sorta creates the feel of the song

I like it .... it's cool ... but I could also see a drumber playing it on the toms. .... a couple of upbeats and then a third .... you could replace the second upbeat with a tom and the third with a lower tom

I just mean "what time in the song is the thing you're talking about?" by time stamp. I had a listen to it all yesterday and did some more vocal work and actually a bit of fiddling with the toms. At this stage I'm not inclined to further change the snare as there's a fair bit of tom action already, but I'll have a play around over the next little while and see what I think, now I know what you're referring to. Cheers

[Armistice]

V4, maybe final, up in the OP...

[WhiskeyJack]

Shit.

I listened to Mix 2(?) this morning at work on my ear buds then i got busy and my response timed out but i see we are up to 4 now so I'll just give that a listen.

The vocals are sitting in there much nice than i remember. But to be fair that listen was on cheapish ear buds. I think at this stage it all tracks for A HH jam. I don't ave much to offer up. The snare does come across a bit bot like a little bit. But perhaps that is part of it. It's an odd timing to my pleb brain that doesn't love to deviate from a 4/4 punk rock time signature but it does flow. Maybe the snare needs that consistency. for that purpose to drive the song. It't not bad or anything it just very noticeable.

Good subject matter too. A twist on the whole conversation i haven't really put much thought into. Really good deep shit Armi. Like it@!!!

[Lt. Bob]

I just mean "what time in the song is the thing you're talking about?" by time stamp.

I have zero idea of how to time stamp something .... lol

And I don't think it needs changing .... just an idea

[Mr Clean]

I listened to the first mix when you first uploaded it but didn't have the time to really concentrate and comment.

Now, listening to Version 4. It sounds much better than I remember it. You've clearly tweaked the mix for the better. The vocals are much clearer and pronounced. Sounds great. Everything else sounds nicely balanced to me. Great little tune.

I think Lt Bob is talking about the little burst of the snare that happen every now and then, ie: 1:04. They're quite prominent and could be more subtle if they were tom hits or snare and tom, maybe?

[Armistice]

I listened to the first mix when you first uploaded it but didn't have the time to really concentrate and comment.

Now, listening to Version 4. It sounds much better than I remember it. You've clearly tweaked the mix for the better. The vocals are much clearer and pronounced. Sounds great. Everything else sounds nicely balanced to me. Great little tune.

I think Lt Bob is talking about the little burst of the snare that happen every now and then, ie: 1:04. They're quite prominent and could be more subtle if they were tom hits or snare and tom, maybe?

Cheers MC...

Checked at 1.04 - nothing I want to change, style wise... I have done a re-scan of the snare and poked it in a bit here and there, and a few other minor changes not worth re-rendering.

[Armistice]

Shit.

I listened to Mix 2(?) this morning at work on my ear buds then i got busy and my response timed out but i see we are up to 4 now so I'll just give that a listen.

The vocals are sitting in there much nice than i remember. But to be fair that listen was on cheapish ear buds. I think at this stage it all tracks for A HH jam. I don't ave much to offer up. The snare does come across a bit bot like a little bit. But perhaps that is part of it. It's an odd timing to my pleb brain that doesn't love to deviate from a 4/4 punk rock time signature but it does flow. Maybe the snare needs that consistency. for that purpose to drive the song. It't not bad or anything it just very noticeable.

Good subject matter too. A twist on the whole conversation i haven't really put much thought into. Really good deep shit Armi. Like it@!!!

Thanks WJ.

I mean, take a listen to pretty much any song recorded in the last 50 years and all the on-beat snare hits sound exactly the same as each other - if you can hear them at all, especially with music with heavier guitars, so I'm not getting the robot thang, honestly. That said I have gone and done an adjustment here and there. Won't post a new version however.

Comments about drums from actual listeners in my entire recording history = 0.

[WhiskeyJack]

Shit.

I listened to Mix 2(?) this morning at work on my ear buds then i got busy and my response timed out but i see we are up to 4 now so I'll just give that a listen.

The vocals are sitting in there much nice than i remember. But to be fair that listen was on cheapish ear buds. I think at this stage it all tracks for A HH jam. I don't ave much to offer up. The snare does come across a bit bot like a little bit. But perhaps that is part of it. It's an odd timing to my pleb brain that doesn't love to deviate from a 4/4 punk rock time signature but it does flow. Maybe the snare needs that consistency. for that purpose to drive the song. It't not bad or anything it just very noticeable.

Good subject matter too. A twist on the whole conversation i haven't really put much thought into. Really good deep shit Armi. Like it@!!!

Thanks WJ.

I mean, take a listen to pretty much any song recorded in the last 50 years and all the on-beat snare hits sound exactly the same as each other - if you can hear them at all, especially with music with heavier guitars, so I'm not getting the robot thang, honestly. That said I have gone and done an adjustment here and there. Won't post a new version however.

Comments about drums from actual listeners in my entire recording history = 0.

Yea but....

We're all largely audio nerds who will sit up till three AM twisting knobs and adjusting 3700khz by +0.753db because we need to hit that sweet spot to our vocals to pop just that extra little bit.

We notice shit. We notice shit good.

Lest ye forget that one song of yours a few years ago that i heard an incessant little pop artifact or a crossfade edit glitch in one of your songs that went ot market with it still intact and i still haven't forgiven you for that.

[Armistice]

Thanks WJ.

I mean, take a listen to pretty much any song recorded in the last 50 years and all the on-beat snare hits sound exactly the same as each other - if you can hear them at all, especially with music with heavier guitars, so I'm not getting the robot thang, honestly. That said I have gone and done an adjustment here and there. Won't post a new version however.

Comments about drums from actual listeners in my entire recording history = 0.

Yea but....

We're all largely audio nerds who will sit up till three AM twisting knobs and adjusting 3700khz by +0.753db because we need to hit that sweet spot to our vocals to pop just that extra little bit.

We notice shit. We notice shit good.

Lest ye forget that one song of yours a few years ago that i heard an incessant little pop artifact or a crossfade edit glitch in one of your songs that went ot market with it still intact and i still haven't forgiven you for that.

LOL - I always assume people are hearing something... what gets lost sometimes is in the description of what it is that's being heard, which I struggle to unpack. I'm completely good with comments about adjusting 3700hz (I mean we're probably a few million years of evolution away from caring about what's going on a 3700khz) by +0.753 db, but I'm always thinking "Yes, but what does XXX actually mean...?" with some of the other stuff.

There's very little difference with anything I'm doing here than anything I've done in the past, drum-wise, so I'm not entirely sure what it is that's being discussed because the words being used mean perhaps different things to me than they do to you. I know, it's tough, but I am honestly always trying to work it out.

That said, I found, for some reason, a gate on the main snare drum channel and I turned it off because I don't really know why I put it there in the first place, so now the snare sounds a bit more "open" and "natural" - perhaps less "robot"? Who knows... So on that basis, plus a few more fiddles with this and that, including but not limited to, reverb levels on harmonies, EQ on harmonies, levels on harmonies, levels on main and double vocals generally and at an individual syllable level, additional work on de-essing main vocal here and there, scoop in EQ on main vocal at about 200hz, EQ on snare, EQ on overheads, extension of the envelope on Tom 3 to get a touch more ringage, adding toms to the ending that always should have been there.... etc. etc.... there is a version 5, up in the OP.

I've deleted all the other versions as it's just getting too confusing.

(And happy to revisit whatever the song is with the inaudible pop in it, you just have to tell me which it is.)

[CrowsofFritz]

I’ll play this on my good headphones in just a second, but I think the lead Vox is too quiet on my phone speakers if that means anything to you. The guitars sound the loudest in this when it swells.

[CrowsofFritz]

On my good headphones now. I think the vocals are sitting with everything else and not in front of it—but there are some parts where it sounds fine. I think when the guitar swells, it buried the vocal juuuust a tiny bit.

Tone on everything is great. Nice song!