The Jongleurs Remix Project 4 - Gypsy #4

[Armistice]

... I used to like writing songs/tunes called "Gypsy"...

This is about my least favourite recording on the album for a couple of reasons - the recording just didn't capture the feel of the song, which goes from light and strummy to quite angry and menacing in the bridge. It just sounded a little flat to me - I was never quite happy with it.

I resurrected it for the solo gig in January and it played well - and with just a single acoustic guitar and me howling in the bridge it's quite a powerful tune. It's one of mine, obviously - and as I was remixing I was reminded of just how little of Richard there is on some songs on the album, because of the circumstances under which it was recorded. In this song he's only there for the last 90 seconds, in a single vocal line. All guitars, bass, keyboards, drums and backing vocals are me. We played it live occasionally.

Anyway, hopefully I've captured more of its true essence in this mix... bypassed Bubba on this one as he's a bit busy just now, so we'll see if I've learned anything along the way. I had a conundrum in that I really liked the ride cymbal work in the original but not the rest of the drums - so I kept the original rides via Addictive, and redid everything else. Made it a little unwieldy to work with but I got there in the end....






Original for reference...

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxW0UkucUR8[/BBvideo]

[JD01]

I think this sounds good, Armi.
Was trying to listen critically but I couldn't hear anything obvious. Possibly sounding a bit crowded in places, I'm not sure whether this is 'cos of buildups on particular frequencies that can be dealt with.

The bass was quite interesting but also quite low in the mix without much attack, but I always say that about your mixes and you seem to like it that way.

[Armistice]

I think this sounds good, Armi.
Was trying to listen critically but I couldn't hear anything obvious. Possibly sounding a bit crowded in places, I'm not sure whether this is 'cos of buildups on particular frequencies that can be dealt with.

The bass was quite interesting but also quite low in the mix without much attack, but I always say that about your mixes and you seem to like it that way.

Thanks JD - I played this at volume in my car on the way to get groceries this morning and I'm inclined to turn the bass down further - compared to other (commercial) things I'm listening to, it's not low in the mix - what it is is indistinct. These days I record bass differently but back then I didn't and I'm restricted by the source material - I'd already put an exciter on it and done some fairly large EQing moves to get it as it was...

I've tweaked the EQ a bit further - and that's brought it out a touch more - not sure what else I can do with it at this point.

What it's highlighting is that my bass is actually really variable in volume from string to string - I've pretty much got volume automation on every single not to try to even it out - way too much to compress without making it worse. And I always seem to be doing that. I'll restring it before I use it next and see what that does...

I won't post a new mix just yet - will see what everyone else comes up with. Cheers

[musicturtle]

Hey [mention]Armistice[/mention]

Overall I like it as well.

To me the mix is lacking a bit of sparkle. Not sure how else to describe it. I think I want the acoustic guitar to shimmer more on the top end.

The the drum part in general is a little busy for me, but I think that is just a personal taste thing.

[Armistice]

Hey @Armistice

Overall I like it as well.

To me the mix is lacking a bit of sparkle. Not sure how else to describe it. I think I want the acoustic guitar to shimmer more on the top end.

The the drum part in general is a little busy for me, but I think that is just a personal taste thing.

Thanks MT - I have taken your suggestion on board and sparkled it up a bit a little on the top end - I only ever really understand the mixes when I listen to them in my car and I had a similar thought myself as I was driving yesterday.

The drums are the drums - as it's a remix, not a re-recording I largely leave the hits alone - play with the volume and very occasionally remove the odd hit that just shouldn't be there - but I'm not going to change the nature of the rhythm parts in any major way. Would I do it the same way again? Maybe not, but it is what it is...

[Armistice]

Hey @Armistice

Overall I like it as well.

To me the mix is lacking a bit of sparkle. Not sure how else to describe it. I think I want the acoustic guitar to shimmer more on the top end.

The the drum part in general is a little busy for me, but I think that is just a personal taste thing.

Thanks MT - I have taken your suggestion on board and sparkled it up a bit a little on the top end - I only ever really understand the mixes when I listen to them in my car and I had a similar thought myself as I was driving yesterday.

The drums are the drums - as it's a remix, not a re-recording I largely leave the hits alone - play with the volume and very occasionally remove the odd hit that just shouldn't be there - but I'm not going to change the nature of the rhythm parts in any major way. Would I do it the same way again? Maybe not, but it is what it is...

[TripleM]

Overall both mixes are good. I heard the high end that you brought out in the second mix, which I thought was good.

I liked the guitar sound a bit better in the first mix. They're similar, but the first mix sounded more naturally like a guitar.

The lead vocal has just a small bit of boxiness to it. In both mixes. Like there is a little low mid build up - maybe in the 600-1200 octave somewhere. You might be able to boost the very top end on it too without making it "over-sizzled." Might be worth a try.

I would only make small changes from what is there. It's good.

[vomitHatSteve]

New mix is certainly brighter and louder than the album version.

Seems pretty good. Always weird to listen to this song tho. Shortly before the album came out, my roommate traveled to europe and got in touch with their Roma family. So now I cringe a little at the casual use of the g-word; makes the song a difficult listen.

[Armistice]

Overall both mixes are good. I heard the high end that you brought out in the second mix, which I thought was good.

I liked the guitar sound a bit better in the first mix. They're similar, but the first mix sounded more naturally like a guitar.

The lead vocal has just a small bit of boxiness to it. In both mixes. Like there is a little low mid build up - maybe in the 600-1200 octave somewhere. You might be able to boost the very top end on it too without making it "over-sizzled." Might be worth a try.

I would only make small changes from what is there. It's good.

Thanks Trip - it's translating well on other systems so I'm pretty happy with it. Cheers.

[Armistice]

New mix is certainly brighter and louder than the album version.

Seems pretty good. Always weird to listen to this song tho. Shortly before the album came out, my roommate traveled to europe and got in touch with their Roma family. So now I cringe a little at the casual use of the g-word; makes the song a difficult listen.

Thanks VHS. Had no idea that the use of the word "gypsy" - with a small g - to describe someone in an adjectival way as peripatetic would be offensive - and although I'm not an etymologist, my limited understanding is that the word has other, acceptable, non-pejorative uses than as a slur applied to Roma - such as the way it's used here - free spirit, refusing to be tied down etc.

[Bubba]

Thanks VHS. Had no idea that the use of the word "gypsy" - with a small g - to describe someone in an adjectival way as peripatetic would be offensive - and although I'm not an etymologist, my limited understanding is that the word has other, acceptable, non-pejorative uses than as a slur applied to Roma - such as the way it's used here - free spirit, refusing to be tied down etc.

That's because it's bollocks. Gypsy has multiple meanings and I've never heard it used in that form as a perjorative. Now, if you'd called the song "Gyppo" or "Pikey" then there might've been some cause for complaint. The modern world's inexorable march towards removing any trace of possible offence from speech gets right on my tit-ends, and this is a particularly egregious example of it.

To quote Chef's dad on South Park "Well, ain't you little crackers just as cute as the dickens?!"

The sooner everybody stops being so uptight about confusing the mere use of words with intent to give offence, the sooner we'll all get along.

I'm annoyed.

[JD01]

Gypsy might have different connotations in other parts of the world too. In the UK it's more associated with Irish travellers who often self identity as gypsies. Some family friends who are now settled still identify as gypsies.

My old man used to do a lot of business with gypsies. They pay cash.

[vomitHatSteve]

It's particularly weird because here in the States, the only impression we have of "gypsies" is stereotypical portrayals of Roma peoples. We view them as kooky traveling fortune tellers and thieves with strange magic and a penchant for circuses.
We also view them as mystical creatures. There are barely any Roma people of any sort in this country. Most of them who came over here ended up being like any other European immigrants after a few generations, so they're largely indistinguishable from Germans or the Irish.
If you came over here and called someone a "gyppo" or "pikey", you'd be told to go back to your own country.

That said, if there's anyone that I'm not going to trust for advice on what is or isn't a slur, it's gonna be an Australian!

[JD01]

We also view them as mystical creatures.

Wait a minute... you actually view them as mystical creatures!?!?! I just think they're humans with a penchant for caravans, nice 4x4s and boxing.

[Bubba]

We also view them as mystical creatures.

Wait a minute... you actually view them as mystical creatures!?!?! I just think they're humans with a penchant for caravans, nice 4x4s and boxing.

And dags. Don't forget the dags.

(Not those kind of dags, Armi, Ausrock and Ray )

[vomitHatSteve]

Wait a minute... you actually view them as mystical creatures!?!?! I just think they're humans with a penchant for caravans, nice 4x4s and boxing.

Kind of of. If you ask most Americans to envision a gypsy, the first thing they'll picture will be a fortune teller with an eastern european accent. The next two things will be a suburban mom who dresses like Stevie Nicks and has a wood carving that says "gypsy soul" in her kitchen; or a carny.

And dags. Don't forget the dags.

(Not those kind of dags, Armi, Ausrock and Ray )

I think that kind we're only familiar with from British films.