City Circus Sewer

[rayc]

I was well enough today to go downstairs and work on JuneRiff - the Glitter rip.
I discovered that I'm no longer able to play my fav guitar - my Bruno Royal Artist (the downstairs recording one not the upstairs noodling one) has too narrow a neck for my hands these days.
Nevertheless I used my Squire Mustang & Guyatone Mosrite to work on the arrangement.
This version is about the arrangement (the guitar up the middle is suffering from unresolved lag/latency issues that I didn't think I had until today) including a guide vocal for the verse and the last part of the chorus.
I'd written a chorus but it was, as usual, too many syllables and too few notes.
I've almost worked out the 1st half of the choruses but it needs more work.
There's a MASS of bottom end on the EQ screens but it isn't translating into audio through the 2i2 - another unresolved thing about new interface & new computer - baby steps I suppose.
Your thoughts, suggestions would be appreciated.

JUNEriff200918.mp3

I've added two new guitars -
one - my UPSTAIRS Bruno to the right channel replacing the one previously there - single coil for the sake of difference.
two- I replaced the middle guitar with my AUS$80 Tele knock off with a bit of Boss Boost (no "gain").
I've left in the canned solos as place keepers but also so you could hear the very generic styles & sound of BIAB solo Realtracks.

JUNERIFF with solo.mp3

I decided to experiment with somewhat wilder guitars. This mix has LOUD guitars recorded along with the canned solo and hideous guide vocal BUT those bad bits give a clue to structure etc.

JUNEriff290918rock.mp3

[JD01]

Still like this Ray. Guitars sound great, but they're a touch too loud, drums are getting a bit lost, particularly the kick.
Vocals aren't too bad, there's something weird up with them though, they kind of jump forward occasionally - your timing and tuning seems to have improved a fair bit.

[Bubba]

This sounds quite good, Ray, particularly the guitars. I find that having every instrument including the voice doing the same changes a bit one-dimensional though. Pretty soon your ear and brain gets a bit uninspired. Is there any way you can change it up, maybe having the bass harmonising with the root sometimes rather than always doubling it?

Regarding vocals jumping out, the answer is to compress. Compress on the way in and on playback. You have the Focusrite Red compressor, don't you? Use the "lead vocal" preset but up it to at least 5:1 ratio and change to a faster attack - say about 20 to 12 on the dial. Adjust the threshold needle so that it's definitely compressing the signal, or raise the input level if you've recorded fairly quietly.

[rayc]

Still like this Ray. Guitars sound great, but they're a touch too loud, drums are getting a bit lost, particularly the kick.
Vocals aren't too bad, there's something weird up with them though, they kind of jump forward occasionally - your timing and tuning seems to have improved a fair bit.

Thanks James,
Yeah, no where near a half decent mix. I'll work on it now I have an arrangement for the guitars.
Vocals - yeah, heavily treated etc - but only a guide - for the sake of arrangement.

[rayc]

This sounds quite good, Ray, particularly the guitars. I find that having every instrument including the voice doing the same changes a bit one-dimensional though. Pretty soon your ear and brain gets a bit uninspired. Is there any way you can change it up, maybe having the bass harmonising with the root sometimes rather than always doubling it?

Regarding vocals jumping out, the answer is to compress. Compress on the way in and on playback. You have the Focusrite Red compressor, don't you? Use the "lead vocal" preset but up it to at least 5:1 ratio and change to a faster attack - say about 20 to 12 on the dial. Adjust the threshold needle so that it's definitely compressing the signal, or raise the input level if you've recorded fairly quietly.

Thanks Bubba,
Yeah, I know. I'm TRYING to get a better melody but that sort of stuff is alien to me. I have considered and started rehearsing using the 5th occasionally for the bass line to do just that.
I do have the red set on my new comp and this is recorded on it. I'l give the rec comp a go with the settings you suggest though, as noted, it's just a guide for the arrangement at present.

[Armistice]

NIce guitars ray - I agree with Bubba - with everything doing the same thing at the same time it gets a bit samey - think you need to free up where the vocal melody would sit against the tune - appreciate it's only a guide vocal but I'd perhaps rethunk it a bit.

[rayc]

NIce guitars ray - I agree with Bubba - with everything doing the same thing at the same time it gets a bit samey - think you need to free up where the vocal melody would sit against the tune - appreciate it's only a guide vocal but I'd perhaps rethunk it a bit.

Thanks David,
it doesn't help that the 1st half of the chorus is empty either.
I HOPE that I'll be able to get something to lift the chorus and then I can work on some variety for the melody.

[rayc]

I've levelled the vocals a bit & experimented with moving bits of the "melody" to the 5th and even 7th of the root to improve things but it wasn't so successful on an automated level - I thought I might do that and then try to learn it from the file.Hmmm.
Here's the mix with less guitar and more drums.
I did add a solo generated in BIAB just to mark the lead spots - intro , m8 and outro.
It was bloody awful! The guitarist, Brent someone, can't help but play cliched country licks in a supposed uptempo rock solo.
That didn't make the cut. He also uses pedal or SIM overdriven amp tones that just sound thick, flubby and really hard to fit into a mix.
Here's the slight remix.
Remember Vocals are just a vague guide and have been pulled this way and that with ReaTune today so sound REALLY bad.

Juneriff210918gd.mp3

Most recent mix with gap fill computer generated solo.

JUNERIFF with solo.mp3

[TripleM]

Great feel to the tune. I really like the drums and guitars. Great parts and they sound great too.

Bass sounds pretty good and sitting at a good spot.

The vocals are a little buried. Maybe purposely? Anyway, they're a little tough to hear over the guitars.

Really cool feel. I liked it a lot.

[rayc]

Thanks MMM,
Vocals are, indeed, deliberately buried and as yet incomplete as there's no melody for the 1st half of the chorus.

[itsnotkcearl]

very garage Ray


sounds great on my new system, all tight and separated...I felt the bass could come up a little but Im just burning in a new sub so my ears have been murdered by my own bass heavy music.


enjoyed the track, wore its heart on its sleeve, Id like to have seen the lyrics too.

[rayc]

Id like to have seen the lyrics too.

Thanks Keith,
Kind of you.
The lyrics - so far as I'm rewriting the unsingable chorus - is below.
Circus, city, sewer.

Come to my circus,
My city, my sewer,
Exhibits are many,
Clay menagerie. You can
Come to the grand ball,
My truncated lover,
The legless, the armless,
Come love’s amputee.

Red cellophane eyes
Waving stumps at the moon,
Come and see!
Come and see!

Come to the grand ball,
My truncated lover,
The legless, the armless,
Come love’s amputee. Won’t you
Come to my circus,
Spectators are few,
Another red nightmare,
You can’t hide or flee

Preach gangrenous love
My pinup religion,
For a fee,
For a fee!

Solo

Come to my circus,
Spectators are few,
Another red nightmare,
You can’t hide or flee They all
Come to the dark house,
My frustrated lovers,
The carefree, the careless,
Loves not meant to be.

Come and taste,
Come and see.

Cochrane

[itsnotkcearl]

Thats one for halloween for sure mate

[musicturtle]

This is a really catchy one Ray. I caught a quick listen before I left school for my other job and found myself humming that riff for a while.

[rayc]

Thats one for halloween for sure mate

A slowly evolving set of words I started in 1976 Keith.
Halloween isn't big Downunder - though dressing up and getting free lollies/sweets is becoming popular.

[rayc]

This is a really catchy one Ray. I caught a quick listen before I left school for my other job and found myself humming that riff for a while.

Thanks Tony,
The riff isn't bad but I can't catch a melody for the life of me. I'm still working on the 1st half of the chorus lyric anyway so I'm not in a rush I suppose.
Any melodic ideas?
Leaving school for you other job! Two jobs is becoming the new norm isn't it? I've actually been doing some work of late - well about 16 days in the 50 day term. Additional bills to pay and some boredom.

[vomitHatSteve]

Jumping straight to the 2nd mix and ignoring all previous comments...

The rhythm guitars feel a lot closer than everything else. The vox and drums have a lot of echoey effects on them that distance them from the listener, and the bass is low enough in the mix that distance is kind of irrelevant. Even the leads have some distance, but the rhythm guitars are right up on my ears.
If you got them to sound further out, I think it would help glue the mix together a lot.

Otherwise, tones all sound pretty good. General balance of instruments is fine.

[musicturtle]

This is a really catchy one Ray. I caught a quick listen before I left school for my other job and found myself humming that riff for a while.

Thanks Tony,
The riff isn't bad but I can't catch a melody for the life of me. I'm still working on the 1st half of the chorus lyric anyway so I'm not in a rush I suppose.
Any melodic ideas?
Leaving school for you other job! Two jobs is becoming the new norm isn't it? I've actually been doing some work of late - well about 16 days in the 50 day term. Additional bills to pay and some boredom.

I will give it a shot. Can you send me a copy without vocals to work with?

And, yeah, my wife has stayed home with the kids for a while and I now have a nice serving job where I work about 20-25 extra hours a week. Teaching music I don't have papers to grade and stuff so it works.

[rayc]

I will give it a shot. Can you send me a copy without vocals to work with?

PM sent Tony.
Thanks.
Oh, the computer generated solos are just place keepers.

[rayc]

Just for something to do on a Long Weekend Sunday, (can't really crank up and record loudly as the neighbours are ALL home), I mixed the tamer, as heard above, and wilder, as heard in the last update, guitar sets together - just the wild ones for the verse and blended in the tamer ones for the intro & choruses.
I did have to cut below 50Hz on the guitars VERY heavily and 100hz less so as they were masking kick and bass.
Yes, silly computer generated solo and appalling vocals are in their to give some sense of overlap etc.
Your thoughts?

JUNEriff300918BOTH.mp3