NOT SO LONG AGO

[rayc]

This is the swampy progression with heaps of delay, reverb and "Mellotron" choir that I posted a year ago. Someone offered to sing on it so this now has a vocal.
Trudy of Heart Shaped Bruise fame/infamy is singing.
James on two part solo,
BAIB on drums,
Me playing guitar through, variously, a Pignose, a Mel9 and a Yamaha FX500 plus the ubiquitous Vantage 1981 bass with round wounds through a BDI21.

My ears are filled with the rancid butter of the tertiary effects of tinnitus, bronchitis, sinus infection and virus so I'm not sure if I hear this properly - it's been a week since the last time I was downstairs amongst musical bits - I discovered my Marshall on standby!!!
Questions...
1) is the vocal too loud?
2) Is the vocal too essy?
3) is there too much/too little reverb on the vocal?.
There's a 2nd take vocal on the chorus - fairly closely done - with ADT added. Does that work?

jan2017110918.mp3

Lyrically it's more misanthropic amourdistopia...
I'm not sure why trudy didn't sing the changes to the chorus. It's often been a ploy of mine to keep some lyrical variation in the chorus lest it become too boring...In the end she's sung a combination of the changes I've made at her request, (to fit the mouth), rather than any set lyric. I'll have to sort that out sometime. Here's the last discussed rewrite.
Sorted out lyrics - I retained the variation in the chorus even though it's not sung.

Sharing Air

Not so long ago I had a lover
And it seemed that nothing could go wrong
Not so long ago there was no other
I had someone with whom I belong
Dreams have become nightmares
Go from REM to eyes wired open
Oh so little time we’d known each other
Such a simple love you had to smother

Not so long ago I had a life where
Sharing air was something new
Wasn’t long before that breath was stolen
Suffocating déjà vu

Not so long ago I had a lover
And it seemed that this love could be strong
All too soon we merged with one another
Swept in the torrent too long
Maybe if I stay inside and hide
Or if swallow my pride
Pretend it wasn’t you and
It was I that had lied

Not so long ago I had a life where
Precious moments weren’t so few
Wasn’t long before those times were stolen
Suffocating déjà vu

Not so long ago I had a lover
And it seemed a love to be prolonged
Not so long ago there was no other
We were Living lyrics for a song
I know I talk of nothing but it
And I know no one wants to hear about it
Oh so little time we’d known each other
Such a simple love you had to smother

Not so long ago I had a life where
Sharing truth could start anew
Wasn’t long before that truth was stolen
Suffocating déjà vu

Solo

Not so long ago I had a life where
Sharing air was something new
Wasn’t long before that breath was stolen
Suffocating déjà vu

I could recover

[Bubba]

This sounds ok on my work laptop, Ray. Trudy's singing is improved over the last time I heard it. There is a bit of timing/phrasing inaccuracy in the words. The double-tracked vocal works well in the chorus. I really like James' guitar parts with their spaghetti Western tones. I like the synthy pads, too. I can't give any mix crits on this equipment but so far so good!

[JD01]

Timing sounds well out on the vocal - she sounds consistently behind the beat, but its most noticeable in the intro.

I recognise that solo - did it originally come from a different song?

[Armistice]

You could almost bump Trudy a tenth of a second forward for a better result - there are bits when she's almost on, or on, the beat, but mostly she's dragging, and pretty badly - if she led slightly in places, overall that might sound better. Give it a go and see what you think. Possibly you can nudge particular phrases into place as well. Her pitch has improved, although there's the odd note that's just wrong. She's not too loud, or too essy and I'm happy with the reverb.

I'd turn JD up a bit and remove some of the reverb from his parts, and dry it out generally.

[rayc]

This sounds ok on my work laptop, Ray. Trudy's singing is improved over the last time I heard it. There is a bit of timing/phrasing inaccuracy in the words. The double-tracked vocal works well in the chorus. I really like James' guitar parts with their spaghetti Western tones. I like the synthy pads, too. I can't give any mix crits on this equipment but so far so good!

Bubba,
thanks.
She's improved - this time recording at her home rather than a studio - I suspect fear and money anxiety didn't help her 1st outing.
The vocal is quite late at the beginning then swims about as it progresses. I thought it too but didn't trust me sick ears.
I'll work on the timing tomorrow.
Thanks.

[rayc]

Timing sounds well out on the vocal - she sounds consistently behind the beat, but its most noticeable in the intro.

I recognise that solo - did it originally come from a different song?

James,
thanks - timing out confirmed by two sets of ears - good.
Yep, your solo FOR this tune - I originally had oodles of ping pong delay etc on it. The thing's been sitting waiting.

[rayc]

You could almost bump Trudy a tenth of a second forward for a better result - there are bits when she's almost on, or on, the beat, but mostly she's dragging, and pretty badly - if she led slightly in places, overall that might sound better. Give it a go and see what you think. Possibly you can nudge particular phrases into place as well. Her pitch has improved, although there's the odd note that's just wrong. She's not too loud, or too essy and I'm happy with the reverb.
I'd turn JD up a bit and remove some of the reverb from his parts, and dry it out generally.

David,
Thanks.I think I'll start with moving the 1st syllable onto the spot I reckon is correct and then I'll cut'n'slide as needed thereafter. I'd been listening and doubting my ears all day.
Pitch wise I've been through and checked all of the important notes against notes in the chord but there's a lot that are grace notes or much harder to pin down. I may have to "adjust" a bit here and there.
Vocal level, esses and verb all sorted at least.
I'll look, listen, laugh & learn re Jame's solo based on your suggestions.

[rayc]

I THINK I may have sussed out the timing issue. I sent Trudy an MP3 version of the backing and then a .wav BUT I think she worked against the MP3. When I did a quick upstairs mix I only had the MP3 backing and her vox in .wav & they started on time.
Today, downstairs, I used the project (wav based) and her vocal waves and the problem appeared.
I've had this prob with a couple of tracks in the past.
Easily fixed - harder to prevent.

[Bubba]

Just a tip, Ray - in case you didn't know already; when you snip a bit that you want to move fractionally, highlight the clip then you can nudge with the number pad. 4 and 6 move the entire media item left and right respectively, whereas 1 and 3 nudge the wave within the selected media item.

[vomitHatSteve]

+1 on the timing issues. Generally a good vocal delivery besides that.

The doubled vox works. You can hardly tell it's there.

I might actually put more reverb on the vox. They're much dryer than everything else.

2:09 has a clipped breath or something. Another at 2:18.

[rayc]

Bob,
Thanks - useful tip.
Steve,
Thank you. I'll look at the time spots before adjusting!

[rayc]

Folk,
I've read, pondered. tried and listened etc.
here's an updated mix. It does seem to be the MP3 versus .wave conundrum again.
Things are better lined up, I've reduced reverb/delay of the solo and a little on the overall. Vocal levels are a bit tidier and I remembered to select stereo on VSTs that had panning associated.
I seem to have a power supply problem at present because last night and again this afternoon the old comp I was using shut down mid process. I THINK it's the slave power board rather than the comp. Things need re sorting in that regard.
Back to the topic - I've followed most suggestions and tried all of them. I still need to be a little tidier with the two cut offs Steve mentioned.
I've not "adjusted" the odd notes David referred to and may need some more precise word/lyric location from him regarding that.
Thoughts, comments, suggestions and critiques welcomed.

NSLAGO120918gd.mp3

[vomitHatSteve]

Timing is definitely improved.

I might ramp the reverb up even more on the vox.

Listening again, there's another loud breath at 1:19. But I assume you're probably gonna give that whole take a once-over for those?

[rayc]

Here's today's update.
I think I've addressed all of the "cabaret" emoting & heavy breathing.
I'm trying to be restrained with the vocal reverb - there's a TINY bit on the buss as well as a splash of ReaDelay "vocal fattening".
I could easily get wet wet wet.
Anything I need to do within the constraints of what it is etc.?

NSLAGO130918gd.mp3

[vomitHatSteve]

Is someone sniffling before the count in?

Sounds much cleaned up. Nice!

[rayc]

Is someone sniffling before the count in?

Sounds much cleaned up. Nice!

Sadly, nothing so human. that's the "Soft Focus" setting on the FX500 reacting to a string touch.

[TripleM]

I listened to mixes #1 and #3. I liked #3 better. Easier to hear the vocal. The clean guitars are covering the vocal in spots here and there. The vocal delivery gets a little tentative in a spot or two. A pitchy spot or two. But generally I thought it was a pretty good performance.

The reverb on the vocal was very different from the reverb on the instrument tracks. The reverb on the guitar solo was way too much for me.

Mixwise, things seem to get crowded in the 2K-3K range.

The drums, especially the kick and snare, are pretty far back in the mix.

Little click or something at 3:33.

[WhiskeyJack]

Hooo! Mix 3 is big improvement.

I am blasting it in here and currently my only nits:
1. In the choruses, the synths pads strings and atmosphere items are really over powering the vocal performance in contrast to the rest of the song.
2. The crashes in the end of the song have some weird gate thing going on and they ring out and then rapidly vanish and it feels unnatural. It might be unavoidable if it is band in a box or whatever but just pointing it out. Ido's songs do that too sometimes.

Other than the space that the kick and drums in general occupy is kind of cool. Roomy but not to out there. Like it Ray.

[rayc]

MMM,
I've reduced the pokier/jangly guitar in the verses, raise the vox a bit, dried the drums a tiny bit and looked inot the build up. Thanks.
Shan,
The vocals are now a little louder and sit above the chorus a little better. The "gate" effect is an artifact of BIAB I'm afraid. The phrase finished and so does the file. I did toy with overdubbing a crash but couldn't get a decent match from a real cymbal or the ones in my ekit bank. I may just fade out earlier to soften the effect.
Thanks

jan2017settled.mp3

[SweetDan]

Every mix is better than the last. The lead vocal could go back down by half of what you raised it since the last mix. (It's clearer and easier to hear now, but stands out a bit too much.) Also the phrase at 2:36 / "...had a life where..." is a bit pitchy and/or the doubling is out of sync.

I'll second TripleM's comment about being crowded in the 2-3k range. Complementary to that, it's a little sparse-sounding in the mid frequencies (though I can't point out exact frequency numbers); it's not hollow sounding, but it seems like it needs a bit more meat.

Arrangement-wise, I tend to lose interest in the verses starting at verse 2 (and perhaps even the second half of verse 1), given the way the bass line and the melody are duplicates of each other. Would it be possible to alter the bass line so it plays some alternate notes from the chord progression, or sometimes moves contrariwise to the melody?