JUNE RIFF RIP Step 2

[rayc]

Hello Folks,
I had to test the new computer/interface/program integration so tried to develop that Kiss Riff Rip I posted a weeks or so ago.
I think there's still some latency to contend with but that's OK. I'll get there.
Three guitars, bass & BIAB drums, (not set to a matching structure in drums just tempo & beat).
For a change I recorded the guitars & bass through an old solid state amp with a MASSIVE single cone ETONE bass bin. Guitars have a Boss Overdrive pedal for a bit of grunt.

juneriffB.mp3

[Greg_L]

I'm not really jiving with the tones on this one. When I read about your OD into a SS amp, I just knew. I don't know if you've ever recorded DI out of a pedal, but this is what it sounds like. If you want crunchy, use one of your tube amps. The riff and stuff is cool though. I'm not getting any kind of KISS feel off of it, so that's good IMO.

[JD01]

Hi Ray,

Firstly - I actually quite like the song. Sounds like proto-punk to me which is cool and you should really put more work into this to get it sounding good.

Sounds garagey as fuck though and not in a good way.

Recording the way we do, to a click one instrument at a time (usually with programmed drums) I reckon its probably impossible to get garagey to sound good. I reckon even Greg or Liv would struggle to do it with real drums; 'cos its still done incrementally and its not a band jamming.

After listening to this I put Search & Destroy on ('73 version) and even though the mix is shite and everything sounds awful, it just works and I don't want to turn it off. This doesn't unfortunately.

Just make everything sound good, aggressive if you want to, but still good. I like a lot of the early Bad Religion songs, but for me they didn't his their stride until Against The Grain in 1990, that's not 'cos the stuff before it is bad, the songs are good, but the production just isn't good enough on most of it.

[rayc]

I'm not really jiving with the tones on this one. When I read about your OD into a SS amp, I just knew.

Thanks for the feedback Greg.
It's just a test of the interface while I was trying to sort out the verse and transition between it & the chorus I'd demoed a coupe of weeks ago.
It sounded a little better in the room but a single giant speaker and an old solid state amp weren't going to make it sound too flash - I knew.
I'm glad the riff doesn't speak in tongues.
Once I have the main riff transition sorted, (& I think I sorted that about an hour after recording), with the new part - verse - I'll crank up the Marshall & quad box.
I think this'll be another short one:
Intro - verse - chorus - verse - chorus solo - chorus should do it but I'll also have to work out a progression for intro & solo I suppose.
One question if I may ,Greg - is the tempo too tepid? Should I speed it up or leave it as is?

[rayc]

Hi Ray,
Firstly - I actually quite like the song. Sounds like proto-punk to me which is cool and you should really put more work into this to get it sounding good.
Sounds garagey as fuck though and not in a good way.

Thanks James,
It's more an new interface/new computer run through than anything else.
It does need the sound of a real amp and a real bass - not my short scale Hofner knock off.
I think I have the parts sorted now so should be able to get working properly now.
Faster, slower or the same pace?

[JD01]

Keep it as it is. Sounds like there's a tune there.

[Greg_L]

One question if I may ,Greg - is the tempo too tepid? Should I speed it up or leave it as is?

I'd speed it up if it were mine. I'd go like 150 bpm.

[Greg_L]

It's not hard to get a "garage sound" if you want that sound. If you're using real instruments you record them like you're in a garage. Our rooms probably aren't much better than an actual garage. If you're using fake drums, use the "room mics" more prominently than you would for a cleaner tighter "studio sound". Mic the cabs from farther away. Cut high end. Compress to mash everything together. Stuff like that.

[vomitHatSteve]

One question if I may ,Greg - is the tempo too tepid? Should I speed it up or leave it as is?

I'd speed it up if it were mine. I'd go like 150 bpm.

All the cool kids use 150 for their ballads and 180+ for the rockers.

[Greg_L]

All the cool kids use 150 for their ballads and 180+ for the rockers.

What do the uncool kids do?

[Armistice]

I've finally figured out what the riff reminds me of ray... you're not going to be happy.

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Z1_-kw8rc[/BBvideo]

[WhiskeyJack]

I've finally figured out what the riff reminds me of ray... you're not going to be happy.

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Z1_-kw8rc[/BBvideo]

I wouldn't even touch that guy with JD's dick.

[rayc]

I've finally figured out what the riff reminds me of ray... you're not going to be happy.

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Z1_-kw8rc[/BBvideo]

Ah, that's well thought through David. Investigative riffism.
I saw him at the Horden Pavilion in 73. It was, honestly, a great gig.
From memory this song was plyed on a guitar tuned to a chord and he either barred or used a slide.
I'll speed mine up for a little more distance. I'm amazed how slow most glam and early punk seems these days.
Oh, yes. He's proven to be a slime bag - not unlike Page and so many others.
I can separate the music from the monster - & there are many monsters in the wake of rock fame.
Perhaps I'll name it something appropriate and write a new lyric warning of the dangers etc.
THANKS.

[rayc]

I've finally figured out what the riff reminds me of ray... you're not going to be happy.

David,
I decided, in closing this demo version, to make it even more like its origin.
I've added the horns that GG used live and on some records to enhance the glitter stomp, added another drum track just like he used live and pulled the top end from the bass.
That's the 1st half of this mix.

juneriffB120.mp3

[rayc]

I'd speed it up if it were mine. I'd go like 150 bpm.

Greg,
the 2nd half of the above attached streamer mix is at 150. It sounds like the Saints between Know Your Product & Prehistoric Sounds to me but I like the tempo. I just changed the BPM in Reaper for that mix. I'll start from scratch tomorrow.

[vomitHatSteve]

I've finally figured out what the riff reminds me of ray... you're not going to be happy.

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Z1_-kw8rc[/BBvideo]

Side note: since YT has detected and tagged that song correctly, watching it does result in ol' GG collecting his songwriter revenue.

(My take on him has become "well, if my glam rock friend who was actually sexually assaulted as a kid still listens to his Gary Glitter CDs, then it's probably ok. I'm gonna try to make sure he never gets paid for it tho.")

[Greg_L]

Greg,
the 2nd half of the above attached streamer mix is at 150. It sounds like the Saints between Know Your Product & Prehistoric Sounds to me but I like the tempo. I just changed the BPM in Reaper for that mix. I'll start from scratch tomorrow.

Oh yeah, I think it's way better up at 150.

[rayc]

Side note: since YT has detected and tagged that song correctly, watching it does result in ol' GG collecting his songwriter revenue.
(My take on him has become "well, if my glam rock friend who was actually sexually assaulted as a kid still listens to his Gary Glitter CDs, then it's probably ok. I'm gonna try to make sure he never gets paid for it tho.")

Ah, that's a good point. I have a vhs or two from the mid 80s and LPs from the mid 70s so shall stick to those when i feel a glam session coming on.

[musicturtle]

Cool riff Ray. I like it better faster as well.

[rayc]

I've mapped out the new version.
Now I'll just have to sweat the guitar recording process and then re do the bass.
This mapping version is just DI'd guitar & some playing around to learn the Scarlett RED plug ins.

Juneriff1308gd.mp3