Isn't It A Shame? - old tune, new mix...

[Armistice]

Howdy

This is the first song I did when I headed down this particular path a couple of years back - I've always known the mix sucked a bit - or a lot - so I just left it on the shelf for ages.

I've enlisted Bubba on the QT to advise what the fark I should do exactly, as it was still a bit messy, despite my laying waste to mid frequencies with a vengeance and making it much better than the original, so on his advice I've gone back in and done a bit more here and there. So let me know what you think - it's a slower one - ray will probably remember it but it hasn't been put up here before.


<<<I'VE REMOVED THIS VERSION DUE TO JD'S PICKUP BELOW>>>
And be nice, OK, or Bubba's not going to be very happy with you... (He hasn't heard the end result yet... )

(Thanks for the help Bubbs )

[JD01]

I think this is good Armistice.
The dark guitar that comes in on the 2nd verse is a bit too loud I think. Seems to be doubling the bass and is dominating a bit.

Good guitar solo, really interesting choice of notes sounds like a tricky bastard too. At 2:23 there's some quick slides that sound like nearly impossibly fast pull off runs!

The chimey guitar in the chorus on the left dominates a bit too and makes it sound a touch lopsided to me. It also seems a bit close and loud.

Cool song though, mate. Your stuff is always a bit unusual and interesting to listen to.

[Armistice]

I think this is good Armistice.
The dark guitar that comes in on the 2nd verse is a bit too loud I think. Seems to be doubling the bass and is dominating a bit.

Good guitar solo, really interesting choice of notes sounds like a tricky bastard too. At 2:23 there's some quick slides that sound like nearly impossibly fast pull off runs!

The chimey guitar in the chorus on the left dominates a bit too and makes it sound a touch lopsided to me. It also seems a bit close and loud.

Cool song though, mate. Your stuff is always a bit unusual and interesting to listen to.

Thanks JD - teach me not to listen in headphones (again! ) - I had two things playing basically the same bit on the same side of the mix, so I've poked it over the other side, reduced the volume and also cut the chimy one a little more.

It annoyed me enough to repost it again below. Hopefully better!

Those are impossibly fast pulloffs - not slides - except they're not that hard, it's just, on the E string, Mr Pinky on 13th fret and Mr Pointer on the 10th fret and the other two on 11 and 12, and you just pull off (cough... ) down from 13 to 10, via all 4 fingers, then bounce down to the B string and do the same thing - not sure if I made that up myself or nicked it from someone else...



Thanks for the ears...

[JD01]

This version is much better, mate. All sounds good to me now - you'll need someone with better ears that me to talk about frequencies and stuff!

I've not heard you play guitar like this before - I had no idea you were this good! Its not so much that they're really quick either, its that you've just plonked them in the middle of the phrase and get to them cleanly without any fuckups. They also sound musical and not like you're just doing a trick. How many takes to nail that solo?

[Greg_L]

Not too bad to me. Again, I don't like the roominess of the drums with everything else being right up front and dry. But if that's how you want it to be, then go on with it. The first chorus is a little low. I think you could drop all of the guitars just a hair to let the vocals have more room. The guitars are pretty dominant. Not terribly so, but they can come down a bit.

[rayc]

David, I do recall. The S in "skinned" goes nasty - distorted/sibilant I don't know but it could use something done to it.
Isn't It a Shame? refrain - the left side does still dominate- bright L - dark R.
Cool song and some lovely playing - not as Television as others - still has a Verlaine/Lloyd filigree sense though - which I enjoy.
Cool story as well.

[vomitHatSteve]

I think I saw an earlier version of this. I recognize that guitar riff.

Greg's right on that first chorus being pretty dark.

Very clean and clear recording overall.

The solo might be a little overplayed. (It's a lot of notes for what is otherwise a chill song.)

[Armistice]

I think I saw an earlier version of this. I recognize that guitar riff.
Greg's right on that first chorus being pretty dark.
Very clean and clear recording overall.
The solo might be a little overplayed. (It's a lot of notes for what is otherwise a chill song.)

Thanks VHS - I do get what you're saying about the solo - but at this stage, I'm stuck with it. JD's a fan! I've brightened up the first chorus bank as best I can at 6am on a Tuesday morning...

David, I do recall. The S in "skinned" goes nasty - distorted/sibilant I don't know but it could use something done to it.
Isn't It a Shame? refrain - the left side does still dominate- bright L - dark R.
Cool song and some lovely playing - not as Television as others - still has a Verlaine/Lloyd filigree sense though - which I enjoy.
Cool story as well.

Thanks ray - I've done some adjusting on that one sound - the balance may have to wait a bit - I may have to go in a bit harder on the vocal as well - there are a couple of other syllables which are a bit nasty too.

Not too bad to me. Again, I don't like the roominess of the drums with everything else being right up front and dry. But if that's how you want it to be, then go on with it. The first chorus is a little low. I think you could drop all of the guitars just a hair to let the vocals have more room. The guitars are pretty dominant. Not terribly so, but they can come down a bit.

Cheers - as I said above, I've brightened that first bit up a touch - and pulled the reverb off the drums a little to dry it out, as well as nudged most guitars down just a touch.



(a) The file name's the same as I can't be bothered creating multiple dropbox versions of it so I can listen on the way to work via that - it is a new mix, though
(b) I've slammed it a bit more on the limiter so it may be a touch louder if you're doing side by sides - don't be fooled

[Armistice]

This version is much better, mate. All sounds good to me now - you'll need someone with better ears that me to talk about frequencies and stuff!

I've not heard you play guitar like this before - I had no idea you were this good! Its not so much that they're really quick either, its that you've just plonked them in the middle of the phrase and get to them cleanly without any fuckups. They also sound musical and not like you're just doing a trick. How many takes to nail that solo?

Cheers JD - I don't remember actually - I recorded it probably 18 months ago now, at least. I remember I had it nailed in the end, but it took a bit of practice - sort of thing I'd just sit there and do with the TV on and the guitar unplugged to get the fingers going automatically. Apart from that trilly bit, there's nothing too quick there anyway.

I was lead/only guitarist in a couple of cover bands way back when, including a power trio format that played all sorts of stuff, including some Steely Dan, who although they don't get much good press here, have some ripping guitar solos - so I was doing Reelin' In The Years and Rikki solos note for note in a 3 piece (and singing the fuckers as well ) - and then much later I was in a 2 piece band called the Hit Singles which played... drum roll... the hit singles so I had all the classics - Stairway, Sultans, Hotel C etc. nailed for solos - I've just lost interest in playing fast, I guess, over the years. But I could do it.

[vomitHatSteve]

Drums feel a little loud when they come in now.

Darkness on first chorus seems improved tho.

[Armistice]

Drums feel a little loud when they come in now.

Darkness on first chorus seems improved tho.

Yeah, the damn snare, curse of my existence - had that thought myself last time I checked and thought I'd let it sit overnight and see how I felt in the morning. Probably just reduction of the guitars has pushed it forward - I don't think I've actually touched the knob on it.

[Bubba]

Listening at work in less than ideal conditions, the snare may be a tiny bit loud in the earlier parts, but it seems to settle down. Do you have more vocals and guitars coming in to push it back a little?

Anyway, I'll listen again tonight, but the balances seem pretty good. I assume you want the vocals kind of murmuring and indistinct in the choruses? If you do, then you nailed it. I'll check for frequency balance tonight. Regarding low mids on guitars, there is a lot of energy in those frequencies and I take out lots of it if I have more than a couple of guitars. Say, if I had four rhythm guitars going, I would look at each guitar having 1/4 of the low mids and bass that one on its own would have. They share it out between themselves because low mids and bass are naturally indistinct. The detail frequencies are important because it's how the ear distinguishes each instrument from the others. That's only my view, YMMV.

[Armistice]

Thanks Bubba - yeah, deliberately a bit quite in the choruses.

I'll have another listen tomorrow and see about the snare - I've already noted something needs doing... cheers

[Armistice]

I've deleted all the old versions as I don't want half arsed mixes sitting out on teh interwebz.
Thanks for the ears all.
Here's where it ended up:

Isn't It A Shame.mp3

<--- Final, final, final as at 4.38pm Sat 21/4/18 Aus time.

[JD01]

This sounds really good now, Armistice.

Oh, the higher more dominant vocal line that first comes in right before the guitar solo and is then used for the rest of the song after the solo doesn't seem to fit in the mix that well to me. Not sure why? Not compressed enough? Not enough verb maybe. I'll have another listen later. See what a couple of other people think.

[Bubba]

I think the higher vocal works fine. I've got a niggling feeling that I've forced you to push your guitars down further than you'd like, Armistice. Possibly the verse ones could come up a dB and the snare down a dB. other than that I think it sounds great. A little drier than I would have it but that's no bad thing.

[jonny deep]

Hey Armi, nice job on this mix. I didn't hear the first one above or any earlier versions of this, but this sounds great. I was going to say the drums are too quiet and distant, but that changed as it got going. I don't think they're too loud, but I like the drums to be bang in your face. Great guitar solo, bit of fancy noodling, but sticking to the story - wish I could play like you!

I don't have much help to offer, I'm afraid - you're a lot better at this than me.

[Armistice]

Hey Armi, nice job on this mix. I didn't hear the first one above or any earlier versions of this, but this sounds great. I was going to say the drums are too quiet and distant, but that changed as it got going. I don't think they're too loud, but I like the drums to be bang in your face. Great guitar solo, bit of fancy noodling, but sticking to the story - wish I could play like you!

I don't have much help to offer, I'm afraid - you're a lot better at this than me.

Thanks jonny

[musicturtle]

Really nice Armistice...

"The heir apparent-ly" love that line.
Really like the guitar solo too.
Nothing to offer as you all have seemed to sort it out already. Good work.

[rayc]

Lovely.