Maybe There’s a Way (Collab with Tadpui)

[CrowsofFritz]

Props to Tad for drumming along to my ridiculous time changes.

Here’s the song!



Edit: Here's the limterless version

[Tadpui]

Cool, it's good to hear the rest of the instrumentation

The very first thing that hits me right up front is that it seems brutally overcompressed. I'm assuming that it's at the master bus. It's compressed to the point of distorting. I think I'd disable everything on the master bus and listen back and see if any of the individual tracks are clipping/distorting. It's a little hard to hear past that upon first listen. Then add back only a bit of the compression/limiting/exciter and see if the mix cleans up before it hits an acceptable final volume level (I usually shoot for about 14 LUFS).

I love the appointments made throughout with the bg vocals, electric guitars, and bass. The arrangement really filled out nicely.

[Alison]

Love the concept of this song, just wish I could hear the lyrics! Things seem to be smashing into each other. . .sorry, I'm not as technical as the others here but, there seems to be a mush of sound that drives out the actual lyrics (I'm all about lyrics)would love to hear more clarity and separation of all the parts. Great start, love the concept!

[CrowsofFritz]

Cool, it's good to hear the rest of the instrumentation

The very first thing that hits me right up front is that it seems brutally overcompressed. I'm assuming that it's at the master bus. It's compressed to the point of distorting. I think I'd disable everything on the master bus and listen back and see if any of the individual tracks are clipping/distorting. It's a little hard to hear past that upon first listen. Then add back only a bit of the compression/limiting/exciter and see if the mix cleans up before it hits an acceptable final volume level (I usually shoot for about 14 LUFS).

I love the appointments made throughout with the bg vocals, electric guitars, and bass. The arrangement really filled out nicely.

Thanks Tad and @Alison I’ll get rid of the maximizer, which is where the limiter is and see where things have gone awry. I think in listening to this over and over again my ears just didn’t hear the compression lol

[Tadpui]

Thanks Tad and @Alison I’ll get rid of the maximizer, which is where the limiter is and see where things have gone awry. I think in listening to this over and over again my ears just didn’t hear the compression lol

I've been there as well, believe me! Just a few days ago I was listening to some of my mixes from the last couple of years and I was aghast at some of the compression decisions I'd made. I'm the worst about losing perspective after listening to a mix 300 times

[Armistice]

Ditto what Tad said.

The loudness wars are over and music won. Unwind that compression big time... No-one needs to be loud any more. Dynamics are in, and that's potentially a really good song for dynamics. I like the song, but it's way overcompressed.

Easier to use the attachment too than load it to Soundcloud, which probably doesn't do you any sonic favours anyway in its format conversion - at least until you get to the final final final stage.

[CrowsofFritz]

I’m probably gonna have to get someone else to mix this track. I’m too attached to what the maximizer is doing. When I turn it off I don’t like it as much

That said, everything has its own space better when the maximizer is off but there’s just something about it I like. And taking breaks hasn’t changed that. I barely did any EQ and only compressed like one track, and had amp sims on four of the elec guitar tracks, so if I send the tracks to someone else, I’ll probably print the effects on them.

[TripleM]

I like the song. It really moves nicely.

In addition to the limiting, it seems there is a buildup in the 60hz-120hz octave and I think again in the 300hz-600hz octave. The buildup really gets bad in the outro.

I caught a pitch problem on the word "Time" at :19. There might be another one or two more minor ones.

[CrowsofFritz]

I like the song. It really moves nicely.

In addition to the limiting, it seems there is a buildup in the 60hz-120hz octave and I think again in the 300hz-600hz octave. The buildup really gets bad in the outro.

I caught a pitch problem on the word "Time" at :19. There might be another one or two more minor ones.

Thanks Triple. I’ll add that to the notes for someone else to mix lol

[rayc]

Definitely clear the master bus of everything and then just pop on a gentle compressor for glue if needed.
It "sounds" like you're mixing into mastering software rather than mastering after the mix...I'm probably wrong though and yes, maximisers are auditory crack: the hangover and comedown are pretty awful but the need to keep them is strong. For this reason I don't have any in my plugin/VST folders.
I hear the two build up areas that 3M mentioned...the higher one gets fatiguing quickly.
Seriously...go back to rhythm section with vocals then slowly add the other bits one at a time and give each some time to belong. Do that and remove what doesn't sit nicely.
The lyrics are buried, the bass n kick are HUGE and undefined.
Take a listen to The Mull Historical Society for something similar for a template. Colin recorded the debut album in his bedroom in 2000 and finished off his 2nd in a studio after doing the majority at home when gear was not so wonderful.

yes, Soundcloud can does AWFUL things to music.

[CrowsofFritz]

Thanks @rayc I just took the maximizer off and made a few EQ changes. It's in the OP. The song breathes a lot better but there's something about it I don't like as much.

[rayc]

Of course you prefer the maxed version = it's an average of 1dB louder, is hyped from the lower mids to about 8kHz and in some points there are as much as 7dBs of difference in particular frequencies at the same point in the song.

You're getting the excited version that is almost dynamically flat and the unhyped, quieter version with peaks n troughs.

Your brain will prefer the louder one - psycho acoustics is the basis of the max and it is designed to appeal to that.

Try using the exciter, if you must use it, on just your vocals rather than across the entire mix.
Most folk go through stages or addiction to reverb, exciters and other things...you have to pass through it to improve.
I think the thing about the over use of these things is that they seem to cover problems from the tracking stage and that is a very seductive thing.

You'll have to get your brain around this sort of thing and get your ears to a point where you can recognize them early on if you're going to sell your services.

[CrowsofFritz]

Of course you prefer the maxed version = it's an average of 1dB louder, is hyped from the lower mids to about 8kHz and in some points there are as much as 7dBs of difference in particular frequencies at the same point in the song.

You're getting the excited version that is almost dynamically flat and the unhyped, quieter version with peaks n troughs.

Your brain will prefer the louder one - psycho acoustics is the basis of the max and it is designed to appeal to that.

Try using the exciter, if you must use it, on just your vocals rather than across the entire mix.
Most folk go through stages or addiction to reverb, exciters and other things...you have to pass through it to improve.
I think the thing about the over use of these things is that they seem to cover problems from the tracking stage and that is a very seductive thing.

You'll have to get your brain around this sort of thing and get your ears to a point where you can recognize them early on if you're going to sell your services.

Yeah, this is why I’m not offering any mastering. It’s an ENTIRELY different thing, and I have little idea what I’m doing when it comes to it.

[WhiskeyJack]

Holy ! Collabs excite me here.

Very cool guys. Mix wise i think it is a bit powerful as everyone is talking about it. things are kind of jammed up on each other. I feel like the limiterless version can work.

@CrowsofFritz You had mentioned upthread that you were enjoying what the maximizer is doing and would have to get someone else to mix it. I think you'd not be as happy with the song if you go ahead and do that if you yourself are enjoying what it is doing to your song?

Instead why not try to find a better way to employ it? Can you bump the master volume more before the maximizer to get levels up a bit more? What about instead of a maximizer use something similar to that JS Saturation plugin that Reaper has? I don't even really know what that thing does but it can do good things to to a mix or even just some tracks.

[Tadpui]

Hey man, sorry it took so long to get back to listen to the 2nd version. I think that without the limiter it breathes a lot better, although it's still pretty dense sounding. But it works. The limiter was definitely doing more harm than good, and without it it's still got a "maximized" feeling to it.

I agree with Trips that there's a low frequency buildup down there in the lows. The bass could use a little trim down there (couldn't we all ), and if anything else is competing, a low shelf or hi-pass on those elements might help clean it up a bit.

It's a lovely song, I really enjoyed being part of it!

[CrowsofFritz]

Holy ! Collabs excite me here.

Very cool guys. Mix wise i think it is a bit powerful as everyone is talking about it. things are kind of jammed up on each other. I feel like the limiterless version can work.

@CrowsofFritz You had mentioned upthread that you were enjoying what the maximizer is doing and would have to get someone else to mix it. I think you'd not be as happy with the song if you go ahead and do that if you yourself are enjoying what it is doing to your song?

Instead why not try to find a better way to employ it? Can you bump the master volume more before the maximizer to get levels up a bit more? What about instead of a maximizer use something similar to that JS Saturation plugin that Reaper has? I don't even really know what that thing does but it can do good things to to a mix or even just some tracks.

Thanks Whiskey, forgot about this. I think I’m just gonna stay away from mastering and give it another crack on different things. It doesn’t seem to be working with this song lol

Hey man, sorry it took so long to get back to listen to the 2nd version. I think that without the limiter it breathes a lot better, although it's still pretty dense sounding. But it works. The limiter was definitely doing more harm than good, and without it it's still got a "maximized" feeling to it.

I agree with Trips that there's a low frequency buildup down there in the lows. The bass could use a little trim down there (couldn't we all ), and if anything else is competing, a low shelf or hi-pass on those elements might help clean it up a bit.

It's a lovely song, I really enjoyed being part of it!

I’ll have to locate those frequencies and cut them. Thanks again, Tad!

[vomitHatSteve]

Jumping in on the uncompressed version...

"Come to me" is a little buried at 0:50 relative to the other vocals.
The second time it happens, it sits better.

Lots going on in this mix, but I can pick out the important parts generally.