Old song, new feel?

[Alison]

After a wonderful session with @JD01 on EZ Drummer, I learned a lot and have been studying and searching for ways of getting the individual drum tracks in my DAW. Finally got the tracks loaded and can edit them somewhat but not the ways and means to edit actual notes via a midi timeline. I have googled and searched YouTube until my brain was a noodle on how to get the individual tracks on a midi timeline but to no avail. . . sometimes I think technology and I don't mix. . .

He had suggested I use Reaper but, because I am in the middle of a project, I'm not sure I should change at this point.
Anyway, I experimented with this song, one I posted a while back. I checked all the comments and tried to make adjustments. Hopefully, I've made improvements.

A Million Wishes.mp3

Mix 2, eliminated one guitar, added reverb and compression on the remaining guitar, reduced reverb on background vocals. . .tried to rebalance everything. . . I think that's it.

A Million Wishes(2).mp3

[SweetDan]

Nice.

If you don't mind using the piano-roll style editor (or in newer versions, the "pattern editor"), there's plenty you can do natively in Studio One with regards to drum programming. Take a look at some of these:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... rogramming

[Lt. Bob]

a nice 'feel' to this .... has a little 'jump' to it ..... I think it's a better feel for my tatse

[JD01]

Strange you should be able to just double click on the MIDI and a piano roll should pop up allowing you to edit as you like.

Really like the reverb you have on your voice on this one, works really well. You might have a bit too much on the backing vocal though - they're starting to sound like they've fallen down the well! The only thing that bothers me about this is that the left and right guitar seem to drift in and out of time with eachother. Sometimes they sound like they're intentionally playing on opposite beats which is cool, sometimes they just sound a bit wonky.

The only reason I really suggest Reaper is 'cos a) the online community for it is really good, and b) most of us here use it so we can literally just tell you step by step what buttons to press to get things to work. Also, you don't seem that far along with learning to mix so if you are going to change, would be better to change sooner rather than later. I'm not saying there's anything really wrong with your mixes, given the instrumentation and quality of the raw recordings they benefit from pretty sparse production.

[Alison]

Nice.

If you don't mind using the piano-roll style editor (or in newer versions, the "pattern editor"), there's plenty you can do natively in Studio One with regards to drum programming. Take a look at some of these:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... rogramming

Thank you for this. . . some of those I have checked out but will definitely be checking some others. Seems a bit mind-boggling for me, but, I am deterrmined!

[Alison]

Strange you should be able to just double click on the MIDI and a piano roll should pop up allowing you to edit as you like.

Really like the reverb you have on your voice on this one, works really well. You might have a bit too much on the backing vocal though - they're starting to sound like they've fallen down the well! The only thing that bothers me about this is that the left and right guitar seem to drift in and out of time with eachother. Sometimes they sound like they're intentionally playing on opposite beats which is cool, sometimes they just sound a bit wonky.

The only reason I really suggest Reaper is 'cos a) the online community for it is really good, and b) most of us here use it so we can literally just tell you step by step what buttons to press to get things to work. Also, you don't seem that far along with learning to mix so if you are going to change, would be better to change sooner rather than later. I'm not saying there's anything really wrong with your mixes, given the instrumentation and quality of the raw recordings they benefit from pretty sparse production.

Ha, nothing seems to work the way it should for me!

In a way, I wanted the backing vocals to "fall down the well" but, yes, you're right, it is a bit much. I was actually thinking that before you mentioned them. Just been a bit focused on getting the drums better sounding. Thanks to you, I have been able to edit them a bit. I also now see why you use two monitors!

The guitars, for me, were difficult to do. I may end up having to redo them. . . again. It's a difficult rhythm to play without thumping on the guitar (adding extra drums, so to speak??) at least for me it is. Thanks for your input, it is always appreciated!

Sigh. . . still such a long way to go.

[CrowsofFritz]

When the drums and strings came in, that was awesome! At first I didn’t like the amount of reverb but it really grew on me. Is this a cover? Sounds like a 60s song with reverb like that.

[Alison]

When the drums and strings came in, that was awesome! At first I didn’t like the amount of reverb but it really grew on me. Is this a cover? Sounds like a 60s song with reverb like that.

Ha! Thank you! This is an original but, I am a child of the sixties (or was a child in the sixties) so. . . I suppose my style hasn't changed much over the years.

[vomitHatSteve]

The drums sound alright.

The guitars are kind of distracting tho. With the opposite panning and the disparate rhythms, it kind of makes everything bounce back and forth in headphones.

[WhiskeyJack]

Nice to see you up and running Alison.

Drums sound about on par with what they should. I quite like them. they feel a little more lively and three dimensional than one of the other tracks of yours with drums. time well spent with JD.

I am not sure how you or your DAW handles your reverbs but if it were possible to apply a small bit of the reverb you have on your vocals to the guitars that might glue them into the mix a bit better. There is nothing wrong with the guitars themselves they sound great, but they sound a bit separated from the rest of the mix and kind of jump in and out a bit here and there. And back and forth a bit as VHS noted.

not sure if some compression and a bit of verb would fix that up or not? Might be worth a shot.

[Lt. Bob]

I am not sure how you or your DAW handles your reverbs but if it were possible to apply a small bit of the reverb you have on your vocals to the guitars that might glue them into the mix a bit better.

^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

there are 2 ways to look at delay or reverb in a mix.
As an effect to make a certain sound or to try and replicate a 'space' to make everything sound like it's a group of people actually in a space.
To do the second you need to have some of the same reverb on everything a little bit because in the real world everything would share the same reverberation of whatever space you were in.

For me the only exception is bass which i almost never put 'verb on because it messes up the attack and can make bass muddy ..... but that's not a hard and fast rule

[Alison]

I am not sure how you or your DAW handles your reverbs but if it were possible to apply a small bit of the reverb you have on your vocals to the guitars that might glue them into the mix a bit better.

^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

there are 2 ways to look at delay or reverb in a mix.
As an effect to make a certain sound or to try and replicate a 'space' to make everything sound like it's a group of people actually in a space.
To do the second you need to have some of the same reverb on everything a little bit because in the real world everything would share the same reverberation of whatever space you were in.

For me the only exception is bass which i almost never put 'verb on because it messes up the attack and can make bass muddy ..... but that's not a hard and fast rule

Great explanation, thank you! This ties in all the comments from @JD01 @vomitHatSteve and @WhiskeyJack makes perfect sense.

I'm working on a new mix of this. I've eliminated one of the guitars (think I found the culprit) added some compression and reverb to the remaining one, reduced some of the reverb on the background vocals and now working on getting a balance without the second guitar. . . will post it soon (I think eliminating the one guitar has made a big difference. Everything seems much clearer, to me anyway. Posting soon).

[Alison]

New mix in the original post. Changed a few things, we'll see how that goes. . .

[vomitHatSteve]

Immediately, with just the one guitar, it's much cleaner mix. I'd maybe bring the guit forward a bit more and scale back the 'verb just a touch.

[Alison]

Immediately, with just the one guitar, it's much cleaner mix. I'd maybe bring the guit forward a bit more and scale back the 'verb just a touch.

Thank you!
My guitar playing lacks a bit and what I was trying to do with the second guitar just fucked everything up. I’ll get it done

[rayc]

Alison, this sounds really good. I enjoyed it and tow tapped along. The slight touch of Reverb is the definite same room glue. The amount is the hard part.
Excellent development.

[Alison]

Alison, this sounds really good. I enjoyed it and tow tapped along. The slight touch of Reverb is the definite same room glue. The amount is the hard part.
Excellent development.

Thanks, Ray. The bell rang when Lt. Bob commented, suddenly made perfect sense! I'm going to use VHS's suggestion and tone down the reverb on the guitar a tad and try to bring it more to the front.
Thanks for listening, I appreciate it!

[JD01]

Alison- the more sparse single guitar mix sounds definitely sounds better.
I agree that there's now a touch too much verb on the guitar.

The cello on the left is a bit loud I reckon, love the tone though, particularly during the cello solo.
Sounds to me like there's still some slightly wonky rhythm playing on the guitar, but its mostly OK, you've got a decent sound there anyway.

There's a lovely reverb effect on the last line - I know you probably didn't plan it or try and do anything fancy - but when it fade outs on "dropping in your dream" it sounds really cool indeed.

Have you figured how to edit the MIDI yet? Normally you can just double click on the MIDI strip and the piano roll will pop up and you can just move the MIDI information around.

[Alison]

Alison- the more sparse single guitar mix sounds definitely sounds better.
I agree that there's now a touch too much verb on the guitar.

The cello on the left is a bit loud I reckon, love the tone though, particularly during the cello solo.
Sounds to me like there's still some slightly wonky rhythm playing on the guitar, but its mostly OK, you've got a decent sound there anyway.

There's a lovely reverb effect on the last line - I know you probably didn't plan it or try and do anything fancy - but when it fade outs on "dropping in your dream" it sounds really cool indeed.

Have you figured how to edit the MIDI yet? Normally you can just double click on the MIDI strip and the piano roll will pop up and you can just move the MIDI information around.

Yeah, there are definitely a couple of spots in the guitar that are a bit off. I tried to pinpoint them but may end up just re-tracking it. I am such a perfectly imperfect guitar player! (By the way "Perfectly Imperfect" is a new song I'm working on. . .cutsey little tune with ukulele, you guys are going to love that !)

Let me just say, I was hoping for that effect on the last line and got lucky!

Frankly, I haven't had much chance to delve deeper into the midi stuff, I've been knee-deep in a virtual silent auction fundraiser for the cat rescue group I volunteer for. . .ugh! Shoot me if I ever do that again!

Thanks for your input, can't tell you how much I appreciate all your help!

[Lt. Bob]

I've been knee-deep in a virtual silent auction fundraiser for the cat rescue group I volunteer for. . .

we had a cat colony living under our house.

About 2 years ago we trapped and spay/neutered 31 cats.

About a dozen of them still hang around here ...... plus a daytime racoon!