Honey Hunters / Remember My Name

[Armistice]

So I don't much explain songs but I think I should explain this one. It's probably not really a Honey Hunters song, in the context of the music I've put out under than name to date. I had the chord sequence worked out ages ago and when I needed more material for my solo (acoustic) gig at the beginning of the year I decided to write some lyrics and turn it into a song. It went down well. And that's its one and only live performance.

Then I tracked it, and it sat on the DAW for a while - no singing - it was all electric guitars, but I figured I probably should use acoustic, so I tracked it all again, a tone higher to help with the low notes (but not the high ones) and then, after a few bad attempts that had me vowing never to sing again, eventually got some vocals down.

It is a slow, acoustic-based, 6/8 time, almost country , my-girl-done-gone-and-left-me weepy - so get yourself a beer when you have a listen - you'll be wanting to cry into it...

And yes, I know there's a big woofy reverb on the kick drum. Part of the ambience. Man. Hopefully it "works".

Not at all my usual fare...

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Any and all feedback appreciated.

[JD01]

Wasn't expecting the low-fi intro at all. Cool idea, Armi.
The delay guitar that comes in "All of the things..." it sounds fairly central, can you pop it way off to the right and keep the balance in your mix?
The drums are fairly distant... but that's your thing!
On "There was a time when I thought..." the drums do a few bars of 3/4, think it would be better if you kept this as 6/8 but just upped the velocity a bit. Its quite jarring as it is. Same on "I wasn't to blame..." this sounds like it should just be a build up, you know kick, floor tom and snare, but it sounds like a couple of bars of 3/4.
I think the acoustic and electric guitars sound great.
Love the vocal performance you've done a really good job there.
Bass is a both pretty low in the mix and not doing a lot... I know my basslines would benefit from being less overwrought... But I think you could add a little to this to give it a bit of movement or, if not, bring it up a bit!

[Bubba]

Hi Armi. Yes, the woofy kick works very well for me . I think the song works great on the whole, though the guitars and vocals, although excellently performed, are getting a bit on the crispy side for me. Perhaps rein that in a little and take them down a dB or two in relation to everything else.

The bottom end could do with some weight and warmth- bring the bass up definitely (I think you might have a reinforcing node in your listening space that's making you pull the bass back) and possibly add some body back into your acoustic guitars.

I think I understand what JD is talking about re. the drum rhythm in places. When the rhythm is kind of pushing forward, I'm not sure that 3/4 feel works effectively. I'm wanting to hear a kind of boom-ba-TIT boom-ba-TIT loping beat at those points.

Great start.

(sniff.... )

[SweetDan]

Beautiful vocals. Lovely guitars. (I especially enjoyed them starting at 1:28 or so, where there's some obvious but unidentifiable effect - like a tremolo, but maybe it's a chorus? - on the guitars out wide).

I could imagine an organ part with long, held chords (like a synth pad) in the background and small, twiddly runs filling in here and there.

There's something about the snare that doesn't sit well. (The kick sounds fine.) Programmed drums, right? If so, I'd try out a different snare sample. The pitch of the snare sounds off in relation to the rest of the song, but I can't decide if a lower- or higher-pitched sound would work better. Or maybe instead of a different snare sound, you could try giving the snare more sustain, whether by tweaking it's sound with a compressor (fast attack/fast release to squash the initial transient + make-up gain), or with a reverb...but my ears would like to hear something to nestle it into the rest of the track.

[vomitHatSteve]

The mix is sparse enough that the boomy kick doesn't step on any toes.

I like the "wish you were here"-esque intro.

The vocals might be a little forward starting in the second verse. As the instruments start coming in, the acoustics might be a little close. In headphones, the string noise is right up by my ears.

I like the vocal delivery on "no such claim" a lot!

[Armistice]

Thank you [mention]JD01[/mention] , [mention]Bubba[/mention] , [mention]SweetDan[/mention] and [mention]vomitHatSteve[/mention] ...

I went to bed last night just after reading Bubba's and JD's comments and of course I couldn't sleep as I was working through them in my head, so I got back up and did a midnight mixing session, at very low volume and using cans, to address some of the issues raised. Then Dan chipped in so I went to revisit it again because the snare was also sort of bugging me - I detuned it, a lot.

It's still too early here to crank up the monitors to any reasonable volume so I run the risk of having overdone things - we'll see. I'm thinking the kick may now be too high.

I've rearranged the electrics and pushed them wider and done some on-the-fly panning changes as they were heavily on the right side when all three tracks were going so I've swapped them around as the song runs. I understand the point about the rhythm and I played with it but everything I tried sounded wrong so I've changed a bit of emphasis on the rides to sort of keep it moving along. To me - and bear in mind it's written on a guitar and rhythm follows that - it's a dead straight 6/8 tune, kick on 1, snare on 4, all the way through except for those 2 bar sections where it goes in and out of double time, and then there's no snare when you're expecting it as it transitions back to normal - which is deliberate. So it gives it a stop start hesitating feel which I like - and I'm used to it now..

Done some EQing on the guitars generally. Dan, that first electric you hear has a tremolo on it with a touch of vibrato - a fave combo of mine for clean accent guitars, then there's a straight tele that follows the acoustics, and the faux slide track is just vibrato and me wiggling the whammy on a strat just a little while playing couple notes on the D and B strings.

So here we are... hopefully a bit better...

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[rayc]

I like the 2nd mix more. The electrics give it more depth and you seemed yo have addressed the sometime almost vacant feeling left channel.
Snare sounds more natural and things aren't as crisp.
Excellent vocal.

[SweetDan]

Mix 1 was good. Mix 2 is great! It's wider, fuller, more lush yet more balanced.

...the snare was also sort of bugging me - I detuned it, a lot...

Nice; it's got the perfect tone now. Have you thought about seasoning the part with a tasteful sprinkling of ghost notes or soft rolls/flams? Not too much. For example, the energy in the transition over 1:37-1:42 drops off, and a little something soft on the snare could help carry the energy through. As a counter-example, the drop and cutoff of the flow/energy at 2:43-2:48 is totally awesome and would be ruined by more snare.

...that first electric you hear has a tremolo on it with a touch of vibrato - a fave combo of mine for clean accent guitars...

Thanks for sharing the secret sauce; I'll have to try that out.

[Tadpui]

Damn dude, this sounds amazing. I've got no nits on this one. Those acoustic guitars are great, vocals are stellar, bass is tight, drums are roomy and sit right. Nice job, man! To me, this sounds like it's right out of a big studio.

[Bubba]

It sounds really good on the cans, Armi. Quite a leap from your first mix to this one - obviously the time spent working through the comments and implementing instead of getting some sleep paid dividends!

Great stuff, will check it out on the monitors tonight.

[paulman]

Listening to the new mix. This sounds really good! I love the guitar part that starts it out, it's a really cool little chord change/riff. I'm with Tadpui, I can't find anything to criticize.

[vomitHatSteve]

Yeah, the things you added starting at the second verse make it sound more lush and give a better sense of space.

I like this one!

[WhiskeyJack]

Big difference between the two Armi. Really good job. It really came to life in the second iteration for sure. I am only on cans for now but will give it a spin on the monitors after a bit here but i suspect i am not going to find much difference at all. Everything sounds really professionally done dude. And whatever effect you might have going on on your electrics translates a little like a slide guitar or a lap steel .. kind of. Not totally. But kind of. I think that's cool though.

@3:14 there is a weird little pop/click or possible ghost note out of time hit on the snare? Something.

to be honest this tracks seemed to be full of pops and clicks but when i skipped back to be sure that i heard what i heard it wasn't there. So i suspect there is something wonky my player, but that spot @3:14 is for sure there. I wound it back a number of time and it is there.

When my wife leaves for work i will fire up my DAW computer and give it a play on that PC with the monitors and see if that pop click effect is still present whilst giving it another good going over.

[Bubba]

@3:14 there is a weird little pop/click or possible ghost note out of time hit on the snare? Something.

[WhiskeyJack]

@3:14 there is a weird little pop/click or possible ghost note out of time hit on the snare? Something.

right at the end of 3:14. Before it flicks over to 3:15. there's a little super fast "THHP" sound buried in the mix. Just slight right of centre it sounds like.

So subtle you might miss it.

[Bubba]

right at the end of 3:14. Before it flicks over to 3:15. there's a little super fast "THHP" sound buried in the mix. Just slight right of centre it sounds like.

So subtle you might miss it.

Hmm. I missed it about five times then gave up.

[Armistice]

Thanks guys - I shall, when I get out of bed, go hunt down the thing at 3.14-ish and report back.

There are various guitar squeaks I haven't decided if I can be bothered minimising and as it's quite a "close" vocal more than the usual number of blurts and pops, plus the occasional dog bark that I was finding when I soloed the vocal, including one I couldn't quite get rid off. And a lorikeet squawk or two - it's a damn nightmare here lately.

[musicturtle]

Yes the second mix is worlds better. Sounds great [mention]Armistice[/mention]!

[Armistice]

OK - so [mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention] wins the laser ears prize for the day.... there was a guitar squeak at about 3.12, but there's a few of them so I figured that wasn't it, and there was nothing on the drum track, but in the word "evenings" on the main vocal, as I'm singing "...nings" there was a sort of shwshw sound of indeterminate origin. Very subtle and I clearly didn't notice it when comping the track together. I couldn't really hear it in the mix, but it was definitely there in the solo track.

Couldn't be fixed so I found a cleaner "evenings" from the takes and patched it in.

I've also added a quiet snare roll or two on [mention]SweetDan[/mention] 's recommendation, and softened the kick a smidge by increasing the attack - it was just a bit thumpy, especially at the start, and taken a gnat's hair off its volume in the first section as well. And I removed a kick at the end of the first verse which didn't need to be there.

So I may be close to done.


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And here is the offending noise spotted by Eagle Ears WJ...

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Thanks [mention]musicturtle[/mention] - glad you like it.

[Bubba]

Anorak of the week. [mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention]

Jeez, Armi, this Sheila gave you an inordinate amout of grief.

The upside is that you got a fertile patch to cultivate.

LOL

P.S., I can't hear the alleged noise EVEN ISOLATED