Joan of Arc - CeeBee n rayc cover.

[rayc]

ALMOST done.
DONE - we've called time. Most of the issues are sorted and we also noticed that as the tweaking continued some of the "vibe" was lost so it's restored to a point that has that and as many of the tweaks that didn't compromise that as well.

JOACBreduxE_r8b.mp3

Leonard Cohen's song from SONGS of LOVE & HATE.
BIAB drums, one of the classical guitars & the strings, (not MIDI or "samples" but phrases stuck together. I used the MultiRiff options which generates 1/2 a dozen minor variations of the one instrument/progression which can be comped for a good single or, in this case, bended together to add weight and variation), made from 2 cellos, 4 violins and 2 fiddles.
CeeBee vocal and gentle guitar solo. + some little licks here n there.

JOANCBmultinoMelgd.mp3

Updated based on the two comments below.

New mix with CeeBee's additions ploughing the way.

I've addressed some issues mentioned PLUS new solo from CeeBee

Here's the mix CeeBee is comfy with...

[TripleM]

The acoustic guitars sounded OK, but a little on the boxy side. maybe retrack with a different mic position. Or try a cut in the 800hz - 1Khz area.

The electric guitars later sounded good. Bass sounded good too.

The vocal.... is what it is. It's buried in spots.

[vomitHatSteve]

Yep. Vocal is super-buried when everything kicks in.

[rayc]

[mention]TripleM[/mention] ,
Thanks for the feedback.
I tried cuts at the freq you suggested as well as in standard box territory. Unfortunately those cuts made the nylong strings sound brittle and the wound ones scooped so I've left them as is.
[mention]vomitHatSteve[/mention] & MMM,
I've lowered the string levels, raised the vocal a bit and addressed some boominess.
Thanks for the feedback.

[vomitHatSteve]

The vocal is still pretty lost when the strings first kick in. I'd largely attribute it to the vocalist having trouble supporting the low notes. The
"la la"s work.

It might help to turn up the acoustic in the first stanza, and match the vocals to that.

[rayc]

It might help to turn up the acoustic in the first stanza, and match the vocals to that.

I'll try that.

[Armistice]

I'd say hit the pitch up button by 2 semitones and retrack the vocal - sounds like it's right at the bottom of CeeBee's range and the really low notes are lacking a bit of presence / oomph.

This is a vocal song - all of L Cohen's are - his instrumental arrangements were never a huge part of what he did - it was always about THAT voice and the lyrics - so the vocals are still way too low and distant - they need to feature more.

[heatmiser]

Hey ray - I just checked out the updated mix, and I really like the arrangement here. I'm not super familiar with Mr. Cohen's work (although I think he had an unusually deep voice as does this fellow), so I don't have much of a frame of reference.

I really like how the strings sound throughout.

Although I myself tend to like vocals a bit more buried than most others, I felt like the singer's voice here gets a too buried when the mix gets busier with all of the strings and other elements. The level seemed fine at the beginning, but I'd raise it as the track progresses myself.

Nice to hear your sound again.

[musicturtle]

Hey [mention]rayc[/mention] and [mention]CeeBee[/mention]

I really like the sound here...I think the solo fits rather nicely in there.

Also think the vocals are well done and mixed for this piece.

Good work

[WhiskeyJack]

This is good. I like it. Musically the mix is right where it needs to be but i 100% agree with [mention]heatmiser[/mention] I lose poor old [mention]CeeBee[/mention] when everything picks up and get's going. Like he's gone at some points!!!!! BRING HIM BACK!!!!

Well done. As much as i wanted to have a go at this i think the right guy is on the vocals here. I couldn't have done this with out sounding like tom waits choking on a hairball. Awesome work [mention]rayc[/mention] and CEEBEE

[rayc]

[mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention] , [mention]musicturtle[/mention] , [mention]heatmiser[/mention] & [mention]Armistice[/mention],
NEW MIX in the OP.
CeeBee sent a tweaked vocal for levels etc and I blended that with the existing one, I reduced the strings a bit & raised the vocal levels in spots.
The new mix isn't fauxmastered - it may have been the limiting/compression that caused the problem as it sounded good prior to that, (to mt ears though).
The main problem is/was that I had a string stem that I'd matched almost perfectly to the rest of the song and then, as a further exercise & experiment with BIAB created a new string backing that CeeBee liked more. I was lazy & just swapped them over - the newer one was built from more tracks and was/is louder. Silly me...

JOACB080420.mp3

[vomitHatSteve]

Vocal is definitely coming through more consistently.

[WhiskeyJack]

Ray, you are getting there a few things:

First two lines are wongo.

"Now the flames they followed joan of arc" something is making CB sound like a robot or soundwave from transformers. And then the next line seems like things come together a bit more.


I think the vocals as a whole are coming in better but they are still murky. RE: "A wedding dress or something white" I can hear him, i know he's there but its welding into the bass i think.

I might be wrong but if someone could second that for me that would be great.


Second listen now and i think i almost like how the vocals were treated and processed in the JOANCB06042016gd.mp3 more than i do the most recent mix. 2016gd may have just needed to be compressed and smoothed over more than it was. The newer one seemed to fix one problem but created another.

[rayc]

[mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention] ,
I've had another crack at the vocals. Add the blend newie without addressing esses, plosives et al was pretty lazy of me.
I've also attempted to address the difference between the fist and second phrases with some EQ & "warming".
If this new mix doesn't make head way I'l return to the one you've noted and work with that one.
[mention]vomitHatSteve[/mention] ,
Getting there - thanks.

[Greg_L]

I think it needs to be a higher key for the singer. I get the sleepy nature of the vocals, but the low notes aren't working. The rest seems fine to me.

[musicturtle]

[mention]rayc[/mention]

The vocals are clearer now to me but almost out of place.

For me they are too present. Maybe a little reverb or delay would soften them without losing them.

The instrument mix is nice and dreamy and vocals are just so dry to my ear.

I want them to settle into wash more.

Just my thoughts, take them as you will.

[JD01]

I'm obviously coming in at the latest mix.
Think it generally sounds really good.
I'm not getting the feeling of losing CeeBee on the lower notes quite so much, although it does get really low.
He does sound really dry, particularly when he gets close on the mic, its a bit creepy on headphones - maybe add a tiny bit of delay (have you seen the "Vocal Fattener" preset in ReaDelay? - try that, but turn the wet down to about -12)

[WhiskeyJack]

[mention]rayc[/mention] This is working better. I think the latest mix is probably the best yet. things still getting welded together when the notes hit those low notes. [mention]Lt. Bob[/mention] has a deeper smokey soiled voice maybe he has some tips for getting those really low notes mixed into something like this based on experience with his own voice/ material / songs etc??

There is a bit more of that robotic sound right at the beginning for the "smoky night" utterance. What have you got going on there?

[rayc]

[mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention],
I spent quite bit of time on that 1st line - it's level and EQ basically. May have been that Chris was singing less directly at the mic. I've used an EQ and compressor boost for that phrase to fill out the sound a bit.
The other spot "smokey night" was WEIRD but in one mix I did a cut n paste & in another I used the EQ/Comp again.
[mention]JD01[/mention] ,
yeah, I've used the fattener often. It usually works but not in this instance. reverb's no good either as it esses the blazes out the vocal. I might try a slight slap back.
[mention]musicturtle[/mention]
Yes, the vocals are too far forward - I'm in the process of putting them further back.
I've made a bunch of mixes based on folks' suggestions and preferences which have progressed much of the sound but will do one to match my thoughts which involve a less dominant vocal.