A tune I couldn't get out of my head

[CeeBee]

I had a tune running round my head for ages so I recorded it and by the time I finished mixing etc. I had purged it from my mind.

Made with a bit of Band in a box, Jamstix, vocals and guitar by me. I have not yet got my head round Jamstix so the drums are a little strange in parts to say the least.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/fps5ohqetevsb ... s.mp3?dl=0

[CrowsofFritz]

Sounds good! Have you considered double tracking your voice for the chorus? I think it’d sound cool if you did that.

[rayc]

The drums are VERY crisp - could def do with some work - the patterns are OK I think but there's that huge hole between kick and cymbal sizzle.
A blluesier take on this classic is fine by me.
My favourite version is the one on the Concert for Bangladesh album.
Vocals - seem fine - the double tracking would be useful but I think there may be a little difference in reverb or something compared to the rest.

[JD01]

I agree with Ray about the drums - they're pretty sizzly.
I quite like the laid back vocal performance (its a bit bowieish actually).

The main problem I can hear with the mix though is that the whole thing is pretty muddy, there's no clarity between the bass, piano and rhythm guitar. They kind of all merge in and out of eachother a bit.

Some very 60s style lead guitar on that. Sounds a bit Python Lee Jackson.

[CeeBee]

WMGGWReMix.mp3

Sorry to take so long replying, I'm still dealing with the aftermath of a disc crash and reinstall of all my programs. I had a mirror backup but it wouldn't work for some reason. Unfortunately I have lost all my presets in the plugins I use, so it's a clean start.
I have made a remix which I hope adresses the drums and I put a slight voice doubler on the chorus. The vocals are a combination of three different tracks anyway. I had some send/return channels working in the background which I have removed so some of the mud is gone (I hope)
Your ears are better than mine.

(edit) I took rayc's advice and put the file in as an attachment.

[rayc]

Well done with the attachment thingo - it took me a week to work out.
New mix - better -
vocals are clearer -
drums are not cripsy - possibly a little too far the other way.
The added lick guitar that comes out on the left is a bit loud when it drops in for bits here & there.
When actually soiling - I'd much rather hear it up the middle.
On that point the bass seems to be coming mainly from the left as well.
Are you after a lean for the bass?
This is, altogether, a much tidier, more pleasant mix.
Time to deal with the essing though - it may be the vocal processing or mic technique!
Chris The Elder eh? Well you're nine years older than me and I'm not sure of Lt. Bob's age other than being fairly sure he's a couple more than me.

[CrowsofFritz]

Can’t listen to attachments, but I trust rayc, so I’m glad you’re working towards a good mix!

[CeeBee]

Can’t listen to attachments, but I trust rayc, so I’m glad you’re working towards a good mix!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jw09q8xl276oa ... x.mp3?dl=0

[Tadpui]

I think you might want to try an expander or gate on the lead vocal. I'm hearing a lot of hiss and mouth pops creeping in between the vocal lines.

I like the fuzzy lead guitar tone. Is that an amp sim, or an amp and pedal?

I think that overall, the vocal kind of sits alone in the mix. Everything else is kind of dark but the vocal is very crisp. Drums can come up quite a bit in the mix, they're kinda buried back there.

Thanks for posting, it's good to hear something from you. Now that song is going to be stuck in my head for the rest of the day

[CeeBee]

I heard the vocal problems as well so I deleted the area between and did some manual de-essing. I'll look at the general balance again and repost it.
The guitar is Amplitube 4 Brit8000 Pushed.

[rayc]

What DAW are you using Chris?

[CeeBee]

I'm using MultiTrackStudio on this one. It is my go to DAW as it is very simple and intuitive. It lack on routing so I am slowly getting to grips with reaper, but I was loathed to transfer this into reaper and start all over again.

[CeeBee]

Another attempt

WMGGWMaster.mp3

[rayc]

This mix is WAY better than the 1st.
I reckon you could smooth the end of the solo at 2.22 as it's a bit abrupt and add a little something at 3kh to give the bass some definition but well done.
I couldn't find any info on automation or plug in use for that DAW so can't point to a specific but if you set the Hi Mid EQ to Gain +2.5, Frequency to 3Khish and Band Width to 0.5 on the bass track it'll be close and then you can tweak to suit. On the stereo drum track - or if you have a sep. KICK drum - use the same general method in the Bass frequency end of the of that track and sweep around until you get a little more thud from the bass drum.
I moved to Reaper afer half a dozen years of Cakewalk ProAudio 9.3. I was worried about the change and, to be honest, it took a project or two to get settled in but it's more intuitive and easier to use than Cakewalk. The Mac version is supposed to be pretty good but I've not used an Apple computer since about 89 so couldn't offer anything more than an opinionated guess.
It's interesting that you used Jamsticks: the Realdrums, for my money, are the best, most useful part of BIAB. Takes a lot of EQ fiddling to get them just so but they're, possibly, the best canned drums available.

[Tadpui]

Definitely better! I really like the vocal performance, and the guitar is more confident this time around. Is that a new guitar take, or am I just not paying attention?

I still want to hear more drums, piano, rhythm guitar. The vocals still just kind of sit on top of everything, instead of being a part of the mix. I think a lot of that is down to EQ. Your vocal mic definitely has that classic vocal mic presence peak, which is good. But nothing else in the mix is there to support it in the higher frequencies, everything else is really dark. Except the solo guitar, that one is good where it is.

As with all mix critique, your mileage may vary, take it with a grain of salt, totally subjective, etc...

[JD01]

This sounds better than the last one, but there's the same problem with rhythm guitar, bass and piano all being really dark and, as such, the low end in the mix is really muddy and you can't easily pick out what's going on.

[rayc]

Hello again Chris,
You've made stellar progress thus far.

I've had a listen again and the BIAB section of the band is the muddy. - lots of lower mids that overlap across the instruments.

To clear that somewhat try this EQ configuration on each of the BIAB components - though maybe not the bass.
You may find that using it on just one instrument clears the mud enough - or perhaps more. Similarly tweak as needed to get the band solid but clear...it's a Reaper preset that you should be able to replicate with any para EQ. It sometimes works as is but, as is usually the case, needs to be fiddled with a little to make things right for the song.

MUDfree.PNG

As an experiment I threw the basic EQ setting across the MP3 I down loaded from the last mix and it def cleared up the mid stuff. It wasn't great across the whole mix as you'd expect but it indicated the probs could be dealt with easily enough.
One other, late, thought. If the piano is stereo just pan it to the high notes side (right?) and that will eliminate a lot of the mid & bottom end that clutters stuff up.

[CeeBee]

I seem to have lost my samples for Sampletank during my disc crash and nothing works anymore. I removed the midi bass and also one of the guitars which has cleared up some of the mud. I also applied some eq as suggested. I can't get the vocal to sit better in the mix, it wants to stay on top.
With some of the mud gone I hear all sorts of things I never heard before, string noise, weird piano notes, etc but I'm buggered if I'm going to re-record it all. There aint much BiaB in there any more, only the piano and the bass. I put it through Ozone to liven it up a bit. Oh, and I sacked the drummer and got a new one

Have a listen:

WMGGWMaster.mp3

[rayc]

Heaps clearer Chris.
I don't mind the vocal where it is at present. bringing the backing up a bit may be cool and would bring the voice/band closer but I think you've done a great job to this stage.
yeah, there are quite a few clunkers inside BIAB I've found - notes, strikes noise etc that have to be negotiated.

[musicturtle]

Late to the party here, but I like the evolution here of the recording.

[mention]CeeBee[/mention] I like your voice man. Especially in the lower ranges. I like the effect you get there with the layers of voices. Cool sound.