Shan's Lefty Righty Tele Build.

[muttley]

You can never never tell exactly how stains will look until you have them under a few clear coats.

What I do is lay up the batch of stains I want to us in strips along the test piece kind of like a paint shop colour chart. Then I will do the clear over it and pickout a strength of colour and maybe add a little tint to the first few coats of clear if I want to even it out.

What stain are you using? If you go with linceed (boiled) you can get a shellac binder coat over it once it has dried for a few weeks. Then go over it with clear. That would be a lot of work and not the best finish IMHO..

[WhiskeyJack]

You can never never tell exactly how stains will look until you have them under a few clear coats.

What I do is lay up the batch of stains I want to us in strips along the test piece kind of like a paint shop colour chart. Then I will do the clear over it and pickout a strength of colour and maybe add a little tint to the first few coats of clear if I want to even it out.

What stain are you using? If you go with linceed (boiled) you can get a shellac binder coat over it once it has dried for a few weeks. Then go over it with clear. That would be a lot of work and not the best finish IMHO..

I am using this product, Mutt. It is the Kunos line of the Livos Products. The guys at the lumber yard were swearing buy it so i grabbed a few sample jars to try out. But the one guy was telling me that where it is a linseed oil based stain / finish oil, it is not an ideal product to put a top clear coat over. he showed me a sample he had where it was three coats of this stuff and buffed to a nice satin matte finish. Which looked pretty dang close to what i had in mind for the neck of this thing. I want the neck and head stock to have that matte / satin look that fender does, so that much i can live with and may try. But for the body i want to have a pretty nice clear coat on it. Basswood is pretty soft and i forsee it getting bumped and knocked aroud a bit so i want a little more protective coating over the stain?

Does that make sense ?

I would be up for trying out the shellac, and time isn't really a factor for me, but doesn't shellac turn yellow over time ? Would i have to put a UV protectant clear coat over the shellac?

[WhiskeyJack]

Awesome! I'm glad you're finally getting after this project.

Finally? You make it sound as though a year and half is a terrible length of time to start something.

[Armistice]

So you've got the body done then? Good start!

Guitar.PNG

[Greg_L]

lol

[muttley]

You can never never tell exactly how stains will look until you have them under a few clear coats.

What I do is lay up the batch of stains I want to us in strips along the test piece kind of like a paint shop colour chart. Then I will do the clear over it and pickout a strength of colour and maybe add a little tint to the first few coats of clear if I want to even it out.

What stain are you using? If you go with linceed (boiled) you can get a shellac binder coat over it once it has dried for a few weeks. Then go over it with clear. That would be a lot of work and not the best finish IMHO..

I am using this product, Mutt. It is the Kunos line of the Livos Products. The guys at the lumber yard were swearing buy it so i grabbed a few sample jars to try out. But the one guy was telling me that where it is a linseed oil based stain / finish oil, it is not an ideal product to put a top clear coat over. he showed me a sample he had where it was three coats of this stuff and buffed to a nice satin matte finish. Which looked pretty dang close to what i had in mind for the neck of this thing. I want the neck and head stock to have that matte / satin look that fender does, so that much i can live with and may try. But for the body i want to have a pretty nice clear coat on it. Basswood is pretty soft and i forsee it getting bumped and knocked aroud a bit so i want a little more protective coating over the stain?

Does that make sense ?

I would be up for trying out the shellac, and time isn't really a factor for me, but doesn't shellac turn yellow over time ? Would i have to put a UV protectant clear coat over the shellac?

Any oil based finish should have an oil based top coat and you really dont want to go there.

You would only need a few coats of shellac to for a barrier coat between the finishing oil and the clear. It wont yellow significantly and no UV required. The wood and stain will mellow more than the shellac. All finishes mellow over time.

Test it on scrap.

[WhiskeyJack]

TL; DR

Just test scrap pieces of basswood with different finishes on them.

I hear you groaning but whatever it's my project at my pace. here are some images of the past week. I have the bug to just get this done and over with.

lessons i have learned from testing with scrap (as per [mention]muttley[/mention] ) :

• My garage desperately needs to be dusted to a spitshine before i start the actual guitar. so once i get the sanding on the actual kit done i am going to go to town on the cleaning before any finishing takes place. As you will see in the photos alot of airborne bits and pieces are being problematic

• be very mindful of sanding and filling, i knew there surface prep for these was anything but good but i didn't know just how bad some of the surfaces were. They may have been in better shape when i first applied the Kunos a few months ago but in that time they got moved, bumped, dropped etc and you can see in the finishes how bad they got. The guitar will get treated with a bit more respect.

I have decided i am going to go with pewter for the top and stick with the smoked oak for the back of the body and the back of the neck. It's basswood. it's not pretty enough to bother having a nice stained top so solid color it is. I have heard that metallics are incredibly hard to work with and what not so i did as much research as i could before tackling this and it am happy with the results on the test scrap. This is an automotive touch up / repair paint for Nissan's Metallic Pewter color. I couldn't find a product easily available that is based off of Mercedes Pewter which is what is cited as being the source of Fenders pewter. So, of all the pewters i had to choose from this was the closest. I won't bore you with photos of all the others.




Now the clear coat i used over the top of the pewter was by the same brand (duplicolor) and it is an acrylic enamel. Someone suggested that i use that so i know the product will work over top of it correctly. now it says on the instructions to do two light coats and then one heavy coat. The photos above have no wet sanding or leveling or anything done to it is just the recommended three coats. that is what i tried to do and to be honest it looks ok but it has no depth? So i don't know if i should just keep building the same product up to the point i am happy with it or if i should try an actual finishing lacquer over it? I don't know ? I do have one more test piece i can use to try another product on it. I might do just that. I think i'd like a bit more depth to it for sure though. this just looks like car finish.

Next up is what i have in mind for the back of the body. not entirely sold on it for the back of the neck. it doesn't seem to have the Fenderish satin / matte finish look to it i would like ot have on the neck but maybe i am overlooking a step. maybe that look is achieved by scuffing this satin finish with a super fine wet paper? I don't know? But for the back i am ok with this. I like the look of it. I don't really want a mirror gloss type finish for it. I am really shooting to take a boring tele design to be full of life and full of depth. I am trying to accomplish this with different degrees of gloss finishes or lack there of. Leave it to me to grossly overthink something.

this has 10 layers of Watco Satin Lacquer no wet sanding or anything but the i did scuff it back after the 3rd, 6th and 9th layers. After about the 5th i started laying it on a little bit thicker each time. I say it has quite a ways to go but it's getting there.




You will note the big ditch across the middle of the scrap that is planer burn. this piece in particular got dropped on the floor and stepped on so i picked the rocks out of it and just jammed it thru my planer. This was also a test piece that was doing really well right up until the last coat and bunch of pieces of airborne shit got stuck in it after i hung it back up. Bummer. But whatever. it looks pretty good.

For fun while i did the other full test scrap piece, here is a piece of test scrap, that is two coats the Kunos Linseed Oil the basswood that had been left to cure for three weeks and then one more coat rubbed into and buffed and left pretty much up until last week. On the left is how it was recommended to me to be used as a finish. On the right is a 5 layer build up of Watco Satin Lacquer. the last three coats were a little thicker and sanded in between each pass. The lacquer definitely makes it pop.





Thanks for stopping by.

[JD01]

I think that's a pretty tidy colour, Shan. I haven't got the patience for that sort of stuff.

[Greg_L]

That's good stuff [mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention] .

I'm no painter, but I know you'll get the "depth" in the finish once you sand the clearcoat smooth and give it a polish. Clear right from the can hardly ever gives you that deep wet look. It can sometimes look nice, but you will usually have some orange peel or it'll look dusty. You need to smooth it out up to like 2k grit or maybe even 5k and polish it. They make sand paper that doesn't clog up too easily, or you can just gently wet sand it. Either way will get that bitch mirror like. Then hit it with some car polishing compound and it will be a gem.

[Greg_L]

double post

[muttley]

The secret with clear coat is to load it up twice. I shoot about 5 or 6 coats of clear and let it dry for a week then cut back flat. let that stand for a week and shoot another 5 or 6 coats and let it stand for as long as I can, 2-3 weeks is best. then flat back to 1200 grit and buff out with my choice of compound. Clear coat especially nitro takes a long time to fully drop in and if you rush it you will see pin holes, grain etc..

[muttley]

all that is important especially if you are using anti bloom thinners and retarders which if you are new to it you should.

[Greg_L]

The secret with clear coat is to load it up twice. I shoot about 5 or 6 coats of clear and let it dry for a week then cut back flat. let that stand for a week and shoot another 5 or 6 coats and let it stand for as long as I can, 2-3 weeks is best. then flat back to 1200 grit and buff out with my choice of compound. Clear coat especially nitro takes a long time to fully drop in and if you rush it you will see pin holes, grain etc..

He's using acrylic enamel though. It's probably like an automotive rattle can spray paint clear coat. That shit flashes off and dries really fast.

[muttley]

Thats why you have to key the coat before loading and it still drops in to the grain, it isnt self leveling. Only poly is self leveling.. TBH that stuff is shit allround. you would get far better results using the nitro rattle cans and they aint expensive..

[WhiskeyJack]

Firstly thanks dude. I mean all things aside a few people have commented i did the metallic paint pretty good for a first attempt. And really the only insider information i got about that was from a dude that does body work and he said his secret was to make all spray passes in the same direction. So rather than going back and forth like you would with a bunch of other rattle cans, with mettalics you pick one direction to spray in and only go in that direction and then when it dries to put a cheater coat of clear over it very lightly from a few extra inches distance then you normally would to effectively "freeze" all the glittery bits in place before piling clear coat on top of it. IS there any truth to that or is that one of those trade superstitions? WHo knows? The real test will be the actual project pieces. the test pieces are small and maybe a bit deceiving?

He's using acrylic enamel though. It's probably like an automotive rattle can spray paint clear coat. That shit flashes off and dries really fast.

Yea, i don't know that i am going to stick with that product. It did dry hella fast but there is no real build to it it feels like. Like i got it up to 12 coats right now and it doesn't look to be building up at all. I only went with it because it was the suggested product for that paint specifically. I think ultimately i think i am going to either keep going with Watco Lacquer products or a Stewmac something for over the painted parts.

I am still trying to find out how to give the neck that sexy satiny softness that fender necks have. But after watching a few youtube videos all i may have to do is sand it as smooth as i can and then pile a few really nice layers that linseed oil based tint, the smoked oak shit, and then buff it to the sheen i want. Failing that i'll just use the satin watco product and then sand that out with super fine grit paper and call it a day.

all that is important especially if you are using anti bloom thinners and retarders which if you are new to it you should.

I've not heard of any of these. With out googling i am assuming they have something to do with spray machine stuff. Which i do not have. I could look into it as i do still have my brothers air compressor? I was just planning on doing rattle cans for this. And really if i had a spray machine i think i would like it more. I think the rattle cans while they are a bit cheaper than i thought they'd be are really wasteful. the suggested cleaning tips alone seem to void the cans propellant pretty quickly. The whole turn it upside down until only gas comes out. If i got spray equipment for my compressor would i see any benefits to that ?

Another suggestion made to me was to consider applying my first bunch of layers with a brush as watco is also sold in paint cans? I don't know how i feel about that but it stands to reason and MIGHT be less wasteful? Less airborne chemical propellants? I don't know. I am open to everything at thins point. And may i say that it i am having a ball with it. I am really enjoying this side of it.

[Greg_L]

Firstly thanks dude. I mean all things aside a few people have commented i did the metallic paint pretty good for a first attempt. And really the only insider information i got about that was from a dude that does body work and he said his secret was to make all spray passes in the same direction. So rather than going back and forth like you would with a bunch of other rattle cans, with mettalics you pick one direction to spray in and only go in that direction and then when it dries to put a cheater coat of clear over it very lightly from a few extra inches distance then you normally would to effectively "freeze" all the glittery bits in place before piling clear coat on top of it. IS there any truth to that or is that one of those trade superstitions? WHo knows? The real test will be the actual project pieces. the test pieces are small and maybe a bit deceiving?

This is true. The flake will stand up and you need to lock it in place. It might take many coats of clear to level it all out. Mind you, I've only done this stuff on car parts. Maybe it's different over steel and fiberglass panels compared to wood. But I bet the same principle applies.

Yea, i don't know that i am going to stick with that product. It did dry hella fast but there is no real build to it it feels like. Like i got it up to 12 coats right now and it doesn't look to be building up at all. I only went with it because it was the suggested product for that paint specifically. I think ultimately i think i am going to either keep going with Watco Lacquer products or a Stewmac something for over the painted parts.

I think you definitely should stick with a clear that works with the base coat. The thing with lacquer though is that it never really "dries" as coats. It just kind of melts together and cures over time. Make sure your base and clear coats can work together.

I am still trying to find out how to give the neck that sexy satiny softness that fender necks have. But after watching a few youtube videos all i may have to do is sand it as smooth as i can and then pile a few really nice layers that linseed oil based tint, the smoked oak shit, and then buff it to the sheen i want. Failing that i'll just use the satin watco product and then sand that out with super fine grit paper and call it a day.

I don't know how this works, but I've seen vids of guys applying oil with very fine steel wool or scotch brite pads. This sort of smooths and oils at the same time. That might give you the satin smooth neck feel you want.

[muttley]

if you have a compressor, find out roughly what CFM it puts out and I can give you a few links to some very affordable guns that I have used recently that produce excellent results with very little outlay. Basically a 30 dollar gun that come close to 300 dollar guns. Ive switched to them just recently.

Your cheater coat doesnt need to be clear. If you use the flake instead you only have to do the final pass as you describe.

The only way to get a true satin finish is to use a lacquer with satin solids in it. Faking it with wire wool will burnish out in time and leave you with a gloss where you rub the most.

[WhiskeyJack]

Here are a few photos of the testing prefit stuff before i start sanding and mussing with the neck.







I feel like the nut is possibly too high. I think it may have been fine before the guy at Solo took it apart and flipped it for me? Hard to say. But there are a few things i have to do to this before it all gets thrown together.


P.S> [mention]muttley[/mention] I took a fresh razorblade to this glue spots i showed you that one time and it worked great. Cabinet scrapers were a biit too much $$ for me. I also loved the way the fretboard felt after i got done doing that. A much nicer finish then the way it came. i know it says not to sand the fretboard and i wont but i may go over all the frets with the razor blades. It just feels nice.

if you have a compressor, find out roughly what CFM it puts out and I can give you a few links to some very affordable guns that I have used recently that produce excellent results with very little outlay. Basically a 30 dollar gun that come close to 300 dollar guns. Ive switched to them just recently.

no idea how much CFM it moves but it without looking until i get home i beleive it is an 8 gallon mastercraft feed it oil kind of compressor. 125 PSI or more? I'll look up the part number later to confirm. I would gladly take a look the products you are suggesting.

[Greg_L]

I'd guess that nut is too high. Nothing that can't be fixed though.

[WhiskeyJack]

I'd guess that nut is too high. Nothing that can't be fixed though.

Yea. It's already on the list of stuff that needs attention. I have no idea wtf is going on with that rounded out bit right under where the nut is sitting. I've not seen anything like that before. I am assuming it is going to affect sound transfer so i am thinking i gotta pop that nut off and fill in that stupid gap with something and then reseat the nut In addition to getting it to the right height.

If i fix that rounded out gap the way i see it going in my head the height may adjust itself.