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This is another out-of-left-field cover request from my wife.
Supposedly this is one of the most highly regarded and respected country songs ever written? I couldn't tell ya. I'd never heard this song in my life before learning it to cover.
Anyway here's me making it worse.
pancho and lefty.mp3
Tear it up. I'm on the fence about the bass level.
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never heard of it either ...... bass sounds a bit thin to me .... plenty of volume to it ..... just could use a little more around 250hz.
Vocals are perfect and guitars sound good too .... oh wow, a country lead! ..... pretty cool .... throw some chicken'-pickn' compression on that sucker ..... drums sound good as I would expect.
I'm listening to this in very sub-optimal conditions. I'm downloading the FS2020 patch (16 GB!) in the background and I can't turn off the sleepy muzak that plays while it's downloading. fortunately your mix overpowers it by a large margin
I know this song, a friend of mine was obsessed with it years ago. I think it was the version that Willie Nelson did. It's a good story.
I'll have to give it another listen tomorrow once this inescapable soft background music turns off on my computer. But from what I hear, it's balanced and all of the performances are spot on. Maybe this is like mixing against pink noise or something, the mix actually sounds great. The Ramones do Willie Nelson!
I think I agree with Lt. Bob re the bass: plenty of level but it is very toppy those seems 'fuller" in the chorus.
Mind you the guitars fill up everything pretty well and the kick covers territory.
I don't know the song so will have to look it up.
Replace the lyrics with almost anything & I'd say it's cool...as it is it's cool too.
I listened to Willie's 83 version.
There's nothing REALLY country about it...awful arrangement...seems half Springsteen and half Eagles with some Ry Cooder style Tex Mex in the accordion. AWFUL 80s intro too.
Well, it does have Merl involved and that self styled rebellious insider conservative could blunt the edge on any steel.
How does the Okie from Muskokie work with the spliff king of the south?
YOUR version wins Greg.
rayc wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:08 am
I think I agree with Lt. Bob re the bass: plenty of level but it is very toppy those seems 'fuller" in the chorus.
yeah I noticed that ...... right after I made the thin comment it went into the chorus and I thought,"well that's not as thin" ...... not sure why it would be different.
Thanks [mention]Lt. Bob[/mention] [mention]Tadpui[/mention] and [mention]rayc[/mention]
I'll revisit the bass. I really like the little bit of dirt in that bass tone, but I'll try something a little more bass-ic to see if it fits better.
The song....I was really confused by this song. Not the music or anything, but the idea that this is a highly respected country song? How? When I first heard the Wille/Merle version I had to double check that I was listening to the right song because the intro is fucking horrendous. It sounds like the soundtrack from some cheesy 80s made for TV movie. I do like the subject matter of the lyrics, but damn....two supposed country legends doing this song like that had to just be a cash grab for both.
Lt. Bob wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:40 am
yeah I noticed that ...... right after I made the thin comment it went into the chorus and I thought,"well that's not as thin" ...... not sure why it would be different.
It might be just the way I played it. I'm playing it pretty light high up the neck in the verses and banging away on lower notes in the chorus.
The bass sounds good in the intro. Has that crunchy Motorhead kind of vibe.
It seems a lot thinner when the vocals come in.
The vocal at the end most stanzas seems to be landing in a lower part of your register (on the "out of kindness I suppose"s). It's ok in the mix, but the energy kind of falls out
Great Cover Dude. Not at all familiar with the original but after checking it out i wouldn't say it is quintessential Willie or Haggard but i wouldn't say it is the worst song i ever heard. One of the hardest parts of taking those old story like country songs / ballads and making them rock and roll awesome is keeping them interesting. You did a fine job with that.
I got no nits with the bass. Really. It's doing it's job for the genre and you got a great marriage of the guits and bass I think it is nice and Growly. I wouldn't do much to it.
Two things that jumped out at me as maybe needing some looking at:
1. The sibilance on "All the Federales say" The 'say' is kind of sharp on the ears.
2. That totally bitching taco wagon style lead you did @ 2:10 is temporarily Murky. Like boiling swamp water right as you head into (2:10-2:12) and on your way out (2:21-2:24) of it on those low notes. All points in between are perfect. Those few seconds of the lead performance eat your song.
Greg_L wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:49 am
The song....I was really confused by this song. Not the music or anything, but the idea that this is a highly respected country song? How? When I first heard the Wille/Merle version I had to double check that I was listening to the right song because the intro is fucking horrendous. It sounds like the soundtrack from some cheesy 80s made for TV movie. I do like the subject matter of the lyrics, but damn....two supposed country legends doing this song like that had to just be a cash grab for both.
vomitHatSteve wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:56 am
The bass sounds good in the intro. Has that crunchy Motorhead kind of vibe.
It seems a lot thinner when the vocals come in.
The vocal at the end most stanzas seems to be landing in a lower part of your register (on the "out of kindness I suppose"s). It's ok in the mix, but the energy kind of falls out
Guitars and drums sound good
Thanks dude. I can't do anything else about the vocal. I had to raise the key a step just to make it through. I can't do those low croony country sounds.
WhiskeyJack wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:57 pm
Great Cover Dude. Not at all familiar with the original but after checking it out i wouldn't say it is quintessential Willie or Haggard but i wouldn't say it is the worst song i ever heard. One of the hardest parts of taking those old story like country songs / ballads and making them rock and roll awesome is keeping them interesting. You did a fine job with that.
I got no nits with the bass. Really. It's doing it's job for the genre and you got a great marriage of the guits and bass I think it is nice and Growly. I wouldn't do much to it.
Two things that jumped out at me as maybe needing some looking at:
1. The sibilance on "All the Federales say" The 'say' is kind of sharp on the ears.
2. That totally bitching taco wagon style lead you did @ 2:10 is temporarily Murky. Like boiling swamp water right as you head into (2:10-2:12) and on your way out (2:21-2:24) of it on those low notes. All points in between are perfect. Those few seconds of the lead performance eat your song.
Greg_L wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:49 am
The song....I was really confused by this song. Not the music or anything, but the idea that this is a highly respected country song? How? When I first heard the Wille/Merle version I had to double check that I was listening to the right song because the intro is fucking horrendous. It sounds like the soundtrack from some cheesy 80s made for TV movie. I do like the subject matter of the lyrics, but damn....two supposed country legends doing this song like that had to just be a cash grab for both.
The 80's was unkind to country music.
How did we go from this:
to this.
Good cover though dude!
Thanks man. I noticed the sibilance too, but I just let it slide because I didn't feel like messing with it. It's a lot of vocal parts saying the same thing. The esses stack up. A de-esser is probably in order.
Greg_L wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:49 am
The song....I was really confused by this song. Not the music or anything, but the idea that this is a highly respected country song? How? When I first heard the Wille/Merle version I had to double check that I was listening to the right song because the intro is fucking horrendous. It sounds like the soundtrack from some cheesy 80s made for TV movie. I do like the subject matter of the lyrics, but damn....two supposed country legends doing this song like that had to just be a cash grab for both.
It's a highly respected country song written by one of the very most respected country songwriters ever, Townes Van Zandt. It has lyrics that were left out of the Willie/Merle version, and it doesn't have the cheesy shit in it. Van Zandt was the kind of songwriter that other songwriters worship. Dylan wanted to write with him, but Townes turned him down. Pancho and Lefty was his only hit, and that was only when Willie and Merle covered it. He was never really famous outside of musician circles. He recorded and gigged, but he never really pursued stardom. He had a very dark view of life, which came out in the poetry of his lyrics. He died of alcoholism in the 90's, respected by his peers but virtually unknown otherwise.
I haven't had a chance to listen to your cover yet, Greg. I'm going to do that later today.
Greg_L wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:49 am
The song....I was really confused by this song. Not the music or anything, but the idea that this is a highly respected country song? How? When I first heard the Wille/Merle version I had to double check that I was listening to the right song because the intro is fucking horrendous. It sounds like the soundtrack from some cheesy 80s made for TV movie. I do like the subject matter of the lyrics, but damn....two supposed country legends doing this song like that had to just be a cash grab for both.
It's a highly respected country song written by one of the very most respected country songwriters ever, Townes Van Zandt. It has lyrics that were left out of the Willie/Merle version, and it doesn't have the cheesy shit in it. Van Zandt was the kind of songwriter that other songwriters worship. Dylan wanted to write with him, but Townes turned him down. Pancho and Lefty was his only hit, and that was only when Willie and Merle covered it. He was never really famous outside of musician circles. He recorded and gigged, but he never really pursued stardom. He had a very dark view of life, which came out in the poetry of his lyrics. He died of alcoholism in the 90's, respected by his peers but virtually unknown otherwise.
I haven't had a chance to listen to your cover yet, Greg. I'm going to do that later today.
Van Zandt was a genious songwriter. Only stumbled on him a few years ago but hes got some doozy songs. So good.
It's a highly respected country song written by one of the very most respected country songwriters ever, Townes Van Zandt. It has lyrics that were left out of the Willie/Merle version, and it doesn't have the cheesy shit in it. Van Zandt was the kind of songwriter that other songwriters worship. Dylan wanted to write with him, but Townes turned him down. Pancho and Lefty was his only hit, and that was only when Willie and Merle covered it. He was never really famous outside of musician circles. He recorded and gigged, but he never really pursued stardom. He had a very dark view of life, which came out in the poetry of his lyrics. He died of alcoholism in the 90's, respected by his peers but virtually unknown otherwise.
I haven't had a chance to listen to your cover yet, Greg. I'm going to do that later today.
Yeah I get all that. I know Townes is a heavyweight. Was this song respected before Willie and Merle made a mockery of it? They made it a hit, but was it well known before that? I can't imagine that hardcore country fans thought their version was good. It sounds like it was produced for mass acceptance from non-country people, which it apparently got. I wonder what country elitists thought of it.
It's a highly respected country song written by one of the very most respected country songwriters ever, Townes Van Zandt. It has lyrics that were left out of the Willie/Merle version, and it doesn't have the cheesy shit in it. Van Zandt was the kind of songwriter that other songwriters worship. Dylan wanted to write with him, but Townes turned him down. Pancho and Lefty was his only hit, and that was only when Willie and Merle covered it. He was never really famous outside of musician circles. He recorded and gigged, but he never really pursued stardom. He had a very dark view of life, which came out in the poetry of his lyrics. He died of alcoholism in the 90's, respected by his peers but virtually unknown otherwise.
I haven't had a chance to listen to your cover yet, Greg. I'm going to do that later today.
Yeah I get all that. I know Townes is a heavyweight. Was this song respected before Willie and Merle made a mockery of it? They made it a hit, but was it well known before that? I can't imagine that hardcore country fans thought their version was good. It sounds like it was produced for mass acceptance from non-country people, which it apparently got. I wonder what country elitists thought of it.
I don't know. I was six when it came out. There was a fair amount of cheese in country during that era, and Willie had his share of it. You're exactly right that this and many other country recordings of that era were made to be crossover pop hits. I think people connect with the song despite the awful arrangement. It was really just the instrumentation that sucked. Willie and Merle were great. But it was definitely a different thing from the original. Townes was a melancholy writer and performer, and this song was no exception.
Greg_L wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:35 am
Thanks man. I noticed the sibilance too, but I just let it slide because I didn't feel like messing with it. It's a lot of vocal parts saying the same thing. The esses stack up. A de-esser is probably in order.
I can address the solo when I go back in.
you ever try changing the phonemes on most of the bg versions? Next time you do a song that has this problem, see what happens if you use a "th" sound for everything but the lead
you ever try changing the phonemes on most of the bg versions? Next time you do a song that has this problem, see what happens if you use a "th" sound for everything but the lead
Ha wow I never thought of that. Pretty spiffy idea. Will try next time.
I learned it from a choir director. The song ended on the word "peace" or something. The sibilant was annoying him, so he had two people sing the s and none of the rest of us.
Someone in the audience asked me why the song ended on the word "pee", so... discretion is advised
Wow! What an awesome cover! Townes Van Zandt meets GreenDay (the early GreenDay!) or The Ramones, ha, ha! I'm a fan of the song, Emmylou Harris does an awesome job of it. . . this is SO unique and I love uniqueness
Ok, I finally got to listen to it. I've been listening to Townes a lot lately, digging in. I haven't even listened to the Willie version in ages. So coming from Townes' dark original version to a rock cover is jarring. I don't think the lyrics can really be anything other than a country song.
That being said, you did great with everything. The guitar solo is really cool. I don't know if it was on purpose, but it kind of sounds like a slight nod to Willie's lead style while being completely rock.
I don't think the lyrics can really be anything other than a country song.
