12 String electric experimentation

[rayc]

Hello folks,
I'm getting used to my cheapo 12 string.
I found one minor issue - there was a rattle on the A string - turned out it was the two strings touching between the bridge and the tail piece - they are supposed to cross & ALMOST touch but these two did - a tiny cardboard shim fixed that.
I also discovered that too much 12 string leads to a messy mix so in this track there're a pair of wide panned 12s in the verse, and one up the middle in the chorus. I replaced the original 12 tracks from the chorus with my Mustang. There's some silly noodling of 12 string almost throughout - I wanted to suss out using the upper reached of the board. The popping notes are due to the spring reverb.
As there's no melody and no arp jangle in the choruses I added some mellotron sax n brass.
Just a bit of fun to find out how to record the thing. Still searching for the right reverb.

jangling2.mp3

HERE's an update with the "Mellotron" parts lifted in the mix.

Jangle3gd.mp3

[JD01]

I also discovered that too much 12 string leads to a messy mix

so in this track there're a pair of wide panned 12s in the verse, and one up the middle in the chorus.
There's some silly noodling of 12 string almost throughout

See what you did there?

[vomitHatSteve]

I also discovered that too much 12 string leads to a messy mix so in this track there're a pair of wide panned 12s in the verse, and one up the middle in the chorus. I replaced the original 12 tracks from the chorus with my Mustang. There's some silly noodling of 12 string almost throughout - I wanted to suss out using the upper reached of the board. The popping notes are due to the spring reverb.
As there's no melody and no arp jangle in the choruses I added some mellotron sax n brass.
Just a bit of fun to find out how to record the thing. Still searching for the right reverb.
jangling2.mp3

Maybe the solution to the first issue is to replace those other instruments with more 12-strings?

[Lt. Bob]

I hear no mellotron ……. is this like click bait?

Like the surfery tunage

[rayc]

I hear no mellotron ……. is this like click bait?
Like the surfery tunage

The sax parts are Mel9 Lt. Bob.
I did have another line in there of strings but it became too crowded.

[Lt. Bob]

I didn't hear any sax lines ..... I'll listen again later

[grimtraveller]

Ray, is the mellotron sax that raspy sound that's following the bass but is kind of buried under it ? If it is, it's quite subtle. It's a little clearer in the very last part of the song and as it ends.
I've used the mellotron a lot over the years but I could never get those classic mellotron sounds that I loved and which had drawn me to the instrument in the first place. But in a piece I did recently, I thought I'd try and create a unique instrument sound so I played the same sequence on 5 tracks and used the tron and chamberlain {from the Mike Pinder samples}. The settings were brass/strings, clarinet, vibes, strings and organ and by some flukey mixing and matching and balancing, crunched them all onto one track and would you believe, ended up with that mellotron sound I'd wanted when I first got MTRON back in 2004 and could never find ! It hadn't been what I was intending but I loved it.

[Armistice]

Interesting ray. Didn't know you had a 12 string. Don't think the Mel 9 is adding much to the mix TBH. It sounds not too bad at all as a tune - you can definitely do something with it. It's such a different sound that it tends to lead you in a particular direction.

Agree the reverb isn't quite right - not sure what I'd use. I'm not a huge fan of spring reverb apart from sparse electric guitar parts.

[Tadpui]

Sounds jangly and fun. I really like that 12 string electric sound, there's just nothing else like it.

[rayc]

I didn't hear any sax lines ..... I'll listen again later

@Lt.[mention]Lt. Bob[/mention] Updated with the sax, horns & clarinet Mel9 parts lifted a little.

[rayc]

Ray, is the mellotron sax that raspy sound that's following the bass but is kind of buried under it ? If it is, it's quite subtle. It's a little clearer in the very last part of the song and as it ends.
I've used the mellotron a lot over the years but I could never get those classic mellotron sounds that I loved and which had drawn me to the instrument in the first place. But in a piece I did recently, I thought I'd try and create a unique instrument sound so I played the same sequence on 5 tracks and used the tron and chamberlain {from the Mike Pinder samples}. The settings were brass/strings, clarinet, vibes, strings and organ and by some flukey mixing and matching and balancing, crunched them all onto one track and would you believe, ended up with that mellotron sound I'd wanted when I first got MTRON back in 2004 and could never find ! It hadn't been what I was intending but I loved it.

[mention]grimtraveller[/mention] ,
Yes, it is.
Louder now.
I'd love more details on how you achieve THE sound.
Currently I'm using a conglomerate of suggestions compressor -> Fender Tweed style amp-> treble & bass rolled off -> spring reverb (lots).
Thanks mate.

[rayc]

Interesting ray. Didn't know you had a 12 string. Don't think the Mel 9 is adding much to the mix TBH. It sounds not too bad at all as a tune - you can definitely do something with it. It's such a different sound that it tends to lead you in a particular direction.
Agree the reverb isn't quite right - not sure what I'd use. I'm not a huge fan of spring reverb apart from sparse electric guitar parts.

[mention]Armistice[/mention] Only a fortnight in my possession David - cheapie Harley Benton Ricky knock off -the small body version as on the Tom Petty LP cover - about AUS$260 - a bargain & after many review articles and videos consumed I bought one.
Still searching re reverb.

[rayc]

Sounds jangly and fun. I really like that 12 string electric sound, there's just nothing else like it.

[mention]Tadpui[/mention] , it's fun to play - WAY easier than a 12 acoustic.

[CeeBee]

Still searching re reverb.

Have you seen this? https://www.arturia.com/reverb-gift

[rayc]

[mention]CeeBee[/mention] ,
I started to do the necessary - created an accounted signed in but they want me to install a download manager before I can get it so I'll pass.
I have quite a few outboard and software reverbs - it's just a long walk to find the right one.
Thanks for thinking of me and providing the link.

[TripleM]

I thought the 12 string sounded pretty good. Maybe a sliiiiiigtly brighter tone? Dunno. But it sounded pretty nice there.

Assuming you don't want any other mix comments.

[grimtraveller]

I'd love more details on how you achieve THE sound.

I never make detailed notes on how I arrive at any sound. Part of it is maybe laziness, but a large part of it is trying to keep every sound as different as is possible. I'll have an idea of what instrument I want in a particular section and then just aim at that sound until I get something that approximates what I'm looking for. Of course, it also depends on the instrument. If someone is playing a sax or a clarinet, then it's going to sound like a sax or clarinet because that's the sound I'll want. When it comes to sampled instruments, it's a slightly different kettle of fish. One thing I nearly always do on a sample though, is take off all the effects and record it dry. The sampled instruments are virtually always a supplement to actual instruments and voices though. I don't have them out front and if I do, they're well disguised.
With the mellotron sound I was talking about, I literally recorded 5 tracks of the same sequence but on different settings and just played around with each one until I liked the blend. I had vibes and organ settings there and somehow, they contributed to the sound. You couldn't really distinguish the vibes, organ or clarinet yet the sound was definitely lacking if you took one of the sounds out or mixed it in lower than I eventually did.