Jazz Shredding Ashes

[WhiskeyJack]

But nice ..... also the idea that good solos are 'noodly' is stupid ..... that just what people who can't play them call them.

None taken.

[JD01]

nice job guys ..... plus you actually got me to take out my seq to this so i can start doing it again.
In a week or two I might have a version to put up but I'll be playing to a seq and won't have the original solo to play along with so I'm fairly unlikely to get it as not for note as you guys did.

But nice ..... also the idea that good solos are 'noodly' is stupid ..... that just what people who can't play them call them.

I think whether a solo is "Noodly" or not depends on what you play... if you play thoughtless shite that just wanders around the fretboard aimlessly, sticking to the simplest notes that are in tune... that's noodly.

[Lt. Bob]

well ..... back in the day that's a complaint I would have about some jazz players whose solos sounded like a bunch of scales and/or exercises strung together.
No way this particular solo could be regarded that way but there are certainly lots of solos that fit that description.
To me a LOT of the metal I see you guys liking is meaningless exercises strung together.
But I don't think anyone's seen me ever say that ....... I may say it's not my style but that's about it because music is 100% a personal taste thing.

I guess I don't like what comes acroos to me as an elitist attitude of "I declare this to be noodly" as if that's a defined term.

That's why, for the most part, I don't put down on music of any sort.
Sure, every once in a while I'll call out something like "We Are 138" but that was more in response to someone else criticizing other music for NOT being as crappy as 'We Are 138'.
If that's what charges your batteries, I think that's great.
I really do.
But then to be dismissive of something like Steely Dan simply shows that musicianship is not something one actually cares about.
And once again ... THAT is a matter of personal taste. Plenty of music exists that's cool while being musically simple.

People like what they like and to be fair, this is not really a musician site ..... this is a recording site.

But it drives me crazy when people dismiss musicianship as unimportant because they themselves don't want to put in tens of years working on their skillz and really like the ethos of kids banging out a song without any idea of what they're doing.

AND ONCE AGAIN that's fine ..... when it comes to what you like to listen to, the only thing that matters is what you like to listen to.
Nothing else matters.

But it does often remind me of how little I have in common with anyone on these sites.

[Greg_L]

this is not really a musician site ..... this is a recording site.

That ^^^^^

[Bubba]

this is not really a musician site ..... this is a recording site.

Agreed, but surely one of the main objectives of the hobby is having something worth recording in the first place?

To me, solos are noodly if you could watch the telly while doing them, mindlessly spewing out notes. A solo should be fairly brief but memorable and take the tune somewhere - or make a valid dramatic statement. Otherwise there is no point having it in.

[Armistice]

Very nice Armi. Not bad for a guy with three fingers

Really though, that is a strange but cool solo. You and JD did it justice.

Thanks MT. All four fingers back and working now. Problem was in trying to play it with 3 and a half, I obviously had to change fingering, and then I had to change it back to use all four - and of course would trip myself up from time to time. "Don't go so hard at the start" is the moral of this story for me... would have had it done last week if I'd eased into it a bit more...

[Armistice]

Interesting... you do a few little bits slightly different to me.
We also seem to ommit/play the odd extra note hear and there.

Yes, I noticed we do a few things differently. I sort of nicked your mini barre thing on the descending pedal tone bit in the end, but found it worked better (for me) if I played the preceding C on the E string, rather than the B - which was where I was always playing it. It's still the least well articulated section of my take.

It was fun to do. Nice to know I can still play at a reasonable level of lead guitar competence if I have to! I'll be able to join the fucking Abba cover band that rehearses next door now...

[Armistice]

Pretty damn good, Armi! I'm impressed with the deep finger vibrato, It really adds something. Tone is good, too.

Incidentally, what's going on with your fingerboard? Was it dyed and the dye is wearing off, or is it just a feature of the wood?

I don't know what that technique is actually called.

It's called vibrato.

Thanks Bubba.

The fingerboard - it's ebony, and this is what ebony looks like these days when people stopped using rosewood because #cites. Yes, I know ebony is supposed to be black, but apparently (and I just learnt this from researching it myself - but it was in a video by Bob Taylor or Taylor guitars, so I'd assume he knows) what used to happen was that the tree cutters would go out and fell the trees but they had no idea if the wood would (!) be black, and thus suitable, or not and be rejected by the buyers, because ebony had to be black. But apparently they had to fell 10 trees to get one that was suitable - and so that was very quickly destroying all the ebony, because it was just discarded in the forest (not quite sure I totally believe that bit) - just for guitar fretboards and whatever else it's used for.

And so Taylor, in his telling, said "Enough!" - and these days you get what you get and they don't go chopping down trees and then letting them rot. Good call.

I love ebony fretboards because of how they play ahead of how they look. I have one on an acoustic, and it "plays like butter" as they say. Better than any rosewood board I have, and so is this one.

The funny thing was that I went to a guitar store to buy this particular make/model of guitar and the only one they had was a thinline and I hate thinlines, and so the guy looked at what was due in shortly and there was the aged cherry burst / ebony one, so I bought it unseen and came back two weeks later when it arrived. It's a tele, it was going to be OK. Anyway, when the guy opened the case to show it to me - he'd not yet seen it himself - he saw the fretboard and, thinking I was going to go "WTF is that all about?" immediately knocked $100 off the price I was just about to pay... I was a bit taken aback but I've see similar on other guitars and now I just think it looks great, and it plays well, which is the main point.

I didn't want the aged cherry sunburst finish either - there was a metallic apricot painted finish as one of about 4 options that had at that point - that's what I wanted, but no-one was going to import one of those, and I would have had to wait ages to get one, so this is what I ended up with!

And yes, I know it's vibrato - but there's the vibrato from planting your finger hard and wiggling your hand - which everyone knows how to do - and the vibrato from bending the string rapidly - works very well on an ebony board, BTW. This solo uses lots of both. I assume that someone somewhere will have different names for the two techniques!

[Armistice]

Well shit. Good show dudes.



I think they both sound great. Quite the showdown i must say. I think if i noted anything majorly different to my really untrained eye is that @Armistice has a really solid tight playing style that might be part and parcel to his blisties and owies, and @JD01 seems to have a more finger bangy orangutangy kind of playing style. both seem to have gotten the job done.

The end results sounded the same like a noodley solo so i am fairly certain i am missing something glaring that guitar dudes should be impressed by but is lost on me entirely.

Loving the tone of that telecaster and if this thing has taught me anything is to get my reno's done so i can get that flippin telecaster finished.

Thanks WJ - and did you just call JD an orangutang?

[Armistice]

nice job guys ..... plus you actually got me to take out my seq to this so i can start doing it again.
In a week or two I might have a version to put up but I'll be playing to a seq and won't have the original solo to play along with so I'm fairly unlikely to get it as not for note as you guys did.

But nice ..... also the idea that good solos are 'noodly' is stupid ..... that just what people who can't play them call them.

Thanks LT. And yes - this is in no way "noodly". I was always aware of it being a great solo, Larry Carlton etc. but until the challenge was isued I'd never really listened super closely or tried to play it. And it's not at all easy, although it's not blisteringly fast shreddy either - the man had serious skilz - it doesn't sound like it's that hard, but I had to do things I'd not really done before.

Look forward to hearing you cut it up when you get to it.

[JD01]

When did melody get replaced with shredding? The 80s?

[Armistice]

Here's the ebony fretboard thing for those interested...

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCGvfsBoFY[/BBvideo]

[JD01]

I've seen that Taylor video. Interesting.

I like an ebony board too, I've never really liked rosewood
rosewood

[Tadpui]

[mention]Armistice[/mention] nice job, man!

Both of you guys did a bang-up job. There are some tricky runs in there and I'd say that you both nailed them.

[JD01]

There's always someone better than you on YouTube:

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlfNxwiLjhs[/BBvideo]

[Armistice]

There's always someone better than you on YouTube:

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlfNxwiLjhs[/BBvideo]

Younger, faster, better looking.

Lucky we both have jobs and aren't looking to carve out a career as session musos...

[JD01]

better looking.

She's about 12!

[Armistice]

better looking.

She's about 12!

LOL - I just hurriedly posted that before the train rolled in. Hadn't actually watched it yet, and had this fleeting thought based on the visible pic that it might actually be a girl...

"Kid" Charlemagne indeed...

Now I'm not going to watch on principle.

[JD01]

She's about 12!

LOL - I just hurriedly posted that before the train rolled in. Hadn't actually watched it yet, and had this fleeting thought based on the visible pic that it might actually be a girl...

"Kid" Charlemagne indeed...

Now I'm not going to watch on principle.

haha, I did watch it as it automatically cued up after your fruitless effort.
She's much better than both of us, super accurate to the recording with great pitch on the bends.

[Armistice]

Anything is easier to play on a shred machine with huge amounts of overdrive - and that's what she's doing. (OK, I watched, in the end)

If you subtracted Larry Carlton, and added her, or you, or me, but especially her, to the original mix, it would sound crap, because I'm reasonably confident that Carlton doesn't play those sort of guitars, and with that much drive. That guitar, and that amplification choice, will simply never sit in that song properly.

He's a jazz guy - and I know nothing about his gear at all, but it's probably a hollow body something or other and he's also probably going straight to amp and sitting in the room with a reasonably high volume.

I actually didn't want to use as much drive as I did - it was a well executed Marshall profile of some sort - but I'm playing low volume (apartment) and I needed to get some sustain happening as at low volume you don't get that resonant sustain that you do from being close to an amp pushing serious air, so I tweaked the gain knob more than I otherwise would have. We're all too overdriven for that song, IMO.

This has been fun, but we're playing over a track and over the original lead, and that buys you a bit of leniency in execution. She did actually make a mistake there.

That said, the "kid" can certainly play - hope she finds something more interesting to do that comp her grandpa's favourites. Plus she needs to seriously work on her guitar face - she looked seriously bored.