General Drum Buying/Upgrading Advice

[JD01]

This is gonna be a bit general, mainly 'cos there is so much info on the net I don't really know where to start.

Over the next few months I'll probably getting my old drums back from a my mate's house. Its a pretty cheap but useable Pearl Export kit.

They were pretty grubby when I gave them to him (probably 7 or 8 years ago). While I put new heads (I think I went for Remo) on them, I'm pretty sure he won't have done.

Also, the cymbals were pretty awful anyway, I cleaned them up and they were pretty shiny but I'd hazard a guess that they're green by now!

My gut feel is that if I clean the kit up and carefully tune the drums, I'll make them at least playable without being just annoying, but that the cymbals will be beyond help and even if I really clean them up they'll sound shite and just be irritating to play!

So to start with (after tuning and stuff) I was going to look out for a tidy pair of hats.
Does anyone have a recommendation for relatively cheap hi hats that will last me a little while - i.e. until I've got the point where I can play/record a bit (I'll probably never get beyond this stage). Just a recommendation for a pair of hats that's a good balance between price and tone.
What are these like? https://www.andertons.co.uk/drum-dept/c ... 14-hi-hats Anderton's say "These cymbals are perfect for a beginner, or intermediate level drummer looking for a high quality first set of cymbals" which is probably a good description of what I'm after.

After that I'll probably gradually upgrade cymbals starting with a ride and then the heads, starting with the snare. Again, a recommendation for a stuff that's a level above budget beginner junk, but not stupidly expensive would be nice. I'll probably end up being able to spend about 75 - 100 quid on a piece every now and then.

I remember Zildjian Edge cymbals being alright but that was 20 years ago, I can't remember what they sounded like, just that they sounded good in comparison to the corroded bin-lids the drummed had previously.

I was going to leave the hardware unless something becomes either too annoying to use or breaks and I can't imagine that I'll ever get around to changing the shells.

[Greg_L]

Before you start buying stuff you need to get everything back and assess the situation.

1) Cymbals. Paistes are great but those PST cymbals are not. Look used. Used cymbals are a great deal and you'll get something good for much less money. Just make sure they are not cracked or keyholed. The thing with cymbals is you get what you pay for and there are more sizes and models than there are guitars. Cheap beginner cymbals sound pretty bad. The Zildjian XS20 and Sabian B8 Pro are probably the best new "beginner" cymbals. If you gotta go cheap somewhere, don't do it on cymbals if you can help it. Great cymbals are very expensive, good cymbals are moderately expensive, but they're also much less prone to breaking. And patina....patina is not so bad with cymbals. It can look pretty ugly, but "dirty" cymbals often sound pretty sweet. Just give them a good wipe down with soap and water. No need for harsh chemicals or too much worry about cleanliness with cymbals. They're chunks of metal, not fine china. Sweat and fingerprints are worse for cymbals than dirt, dust, or patina. Just wipe em down.

2) Hardware. Rarely goes bad, but if things are stripped/worn they'll need to be replaced. fasteners needs to fasten, and cymbal felts, sleeves, and the stud itself needs to be in good shape. The worst thing about hardware is noise. Squeaky, rattling parts are obviously no good when recording. The kick pedal can add a bunch of weird noise and you'll want to kill yourself after you do a complete drum track with a squeak-squeak-squeak all through it. Old hardware could usually benefit from a good breakdown and full cleaning. Again, used is a good way to go. Just this week I bought a like-new super-beefy double-braced heavy-duty road-ready Yamaha cymbal stand for 60 bucks used. This thing is a tank. Kurt Cobain could dive into it and he would die all over again. The stand wouldn't budge. 60 bucks.

3) Heads. I think heads and tuning are the most important bit about drums. Drum shell material means next to nothing if they're round and have a good bearing edge. Maple, birch, oak, acrylic, whatever. The shell sizes doesn't even matter that much. The heads and how you tune them mean everything. The right mix of top and bottom heads matters a lot. Good hoops matter. And the lugs...make sure they're clean, springy, tightened to the shells, and lubricated. One sticky bad lug will totally fuck up the tuning process. Like cymbals, there are a bajillion heads out there. Some do better than others at certain things. Heads should probably be the first thing you do. They are the guitar strings of drums.

[JD01]

Cheers, mate. This is exactly the sort of shit I need to know.
When I get the kit back I was going to take it to bits, clean everything and then see where I'm at.

What I've noticed in my first searches for drum gear is that, aside from new cymbals, for the price of a pedal (70 quid or so) you can pick up a few bits so I should be able to gradually upgrade a kit to something useful within 6 - 9 months by which time I'll hopefully be back up to speed with drumming - I've not played for a good 8 or 9 years (aside from on my drums at a party when i was dead drunk!).

I just want to get set up and then gradually make things better, starting with the bits that will make the most difference.

[Greg_L]

Drums are no different than anything else we record - you gotta start with a good foundation and source sounds. You gotta play well first and foremost. Then you gotta play well on good sounding drums. Then you gotta play well on those good sounding drums and have the right mics in the right spots. And you gotta move shit around constantly. You MUST trial-and-error every single thing you can think of. A terrible snare sound can become wonderful with a slight tweak of a few mics. It aint no joke. Kids have been born and graduated high school in the time it's taken me to get this far. Lol. I didn't have youtube for any of it though. Fucking n00bs get everything handed right to them. Cunts.

Another thing I forgot to mention - snare wires. They make a difference. I guess they could go with "heads" instead of hardware. I bet your snare has bottom of the barrel junk snare wires with little snap and little adjustment. Get new ones and get the right size for the drum.

[JD01]

Fucking n00bs get everything handed right to them. Cunts.

Another thing I forgot to mention - snare wires. They make a difference. I guess they could go with "heads" instead of hardware. I bet your snare has bottom of the barrel junk snare wires with little snap and little adjustment. Get new ones and get the right size for the drum.

Greg, you really should get your head around this video shit and start a YouTube channel about recording drums!

Now I've started committing myself to giving this a go I'm really looking forward to it.

Seems like there's a lot more variables than dialing in a tone and micing a cab!

[Greg_L]

Greg, you really should get your head around this video shit and start a YouTube channel about recording drums!

Now I've started committing myself to giving this a go I'm really looking forward to it.

Seems like there's a lot more variables than dialing in a tone and micing a cab!

If people actually recorded actual drums, that would be a good idea. I've been watching it's slow march to death for a long time.

You really have no idea what you're getting into. Guitar recording is nothing compared to drum recording.

[JD01]

You really have no idea what you're getting into. Guitar recording is nothing compared to drum recording.

Yeah, I bet. I'm hoping to get some initial tests done with good a couple of good drummers on their own kits to give myself a kind of benchmark to start with. Gonna test my new AKG this weekend if/when I get my latency sorted to make sure that's tonally very similar to the one I have already.

There are still millions of people in the world recording drums - its probably as bad as its ever going to get with regard to recording real drums.

[Greg_L]

Where are you gonna put drums anyway? You live in a fucking closet.

[JD01]

Where are you gonna put drums anyway? You live in a fucking closet.

Its only my office/studio that is tiny. By UK standards, my house is a decent size 3 bedroom (my office is actually classed as a bedroom!)

The attic - I boarded it out a few weeks ago, I'm gonna get more boarding to move more stuff (old surfboards, snowboards, suitcases etc) further out. This will leave me with plenty of space in the tallest part of the attic to set the drums out.

I had the upstairs and stairs of the house carpeted a couple of weeks ago and I have plenty of carpet over to place the drums on.

[Greg_L]

The attic huh? Must be nice. My attic is about 230,000 Kelvin degrees Celsius Farenheit x the sun.

[Tadpui]

Ooh nice! Good luck JD. I never had the chance to hone my drum recording skills after Greg got me off the ground a couple years ago. My drums, cymbals and hardware are all sitting in a lonely corner of the basement, waiting for the day when I have enough room to set them up again.

I think I spent more on cymbals than I did the shell pack. Worth every penny too!

[JD01]

The attic huh? Must be nice. My attic is about 230,000 Kelvin degrees Celsius Farenheit x the sun.

haha, mine is a relatively comfortable temperature both summer and winter.
Its also the area of the house that's furthest away from my neighbours!

Its not a nice space... but its a space.

[Greg_L]

A friend of mine bought a marching band bass drum and converted it to a kick drum. It's like 32 inches. It's huge. It's hilarious and impressive to look at. It looks good on a stage. And you know what else? It sounds like a regular ol kick drum. Lol.

[JD01]

A friend of mine bought a marching band bass drum and converted it to a kick drum. It's like 32 inches. It's huge. It's hilarious and impressive to look at. It looks good on a stage. And you know what else? It sounds like a regular ol kick drum. Lol.

A mate of mine has a really small kick drum. She's a really good drummer and when she plays it also just sounds like a normal kick drum.

[SweetDan]

Just this week I bought a ... cymbal stand for 60 bucks used. This thing is a tank. Kurt Cobain could dive into it and he would die all over again.

(I've got nothing meaningful to contribute in this reply, but I just had to quote that...probably going to share it with my musician friends.)

[einstein magoo]

Greg has given you great advice. Only thing I would add is, take your time with every step along the way for set-up. Easy to get excited and anxious to sit down and jam, but get in a hurry and you'll miss something.

My kit is stacked in a corner, still waiting for my procrastinating ass to move it to friend's house. Been there for maybe 4 months. First thing i will do when I get the kit moved is fix a minor fuckup I shoild have taken care of long ago, last time I set up at my house. One of the screws that holds
the lugs on floor tom came loose and dropped to the bottom of the drum. Now bounces around on the bottom head whenever you whack the drum. Not acceptable!

There are lots of little screws and nuts and bolts that hold a drum together and each one eeds to be looked at, and snugged up, and secure before you put those heads back on.

Have fun JD!

[Tadpui]

Do you drum experts use lube or grease on your lugs and other moving parts? My set is too new for me to have worried about it, but it sounds like JD is fetching a kit that's lived a long life. I just remember that rdavidr guy doing that every time he refurbs or mods a kit and I was wondering if that was a common practice.

[JD01]

I got given the kit originally about 15 years ago I think. Dunno how old it actually is.

[Greg_L]

Do you drum experts use lube or grease on your lugs and other moving parts? My set is too new for me to have worried about it, but it sounds like JD is fetching a kit that's lived a long life. I just remember that rdavidr guy doing that every time he refurbs or mods a kit and I was wondering if that was a common practice.

Yup. Lug screws get some goop and if necessary pack the lugs with vaseline soaked cotton balls or something. Lubing the lug screws gets you smooth tuning. I'm an old engine builder, so I use engine assembly grease, but simple vaseline works fine. Grease is good because a tiny bit goes a long way and lasts. Just wipe off any excess goo. Keep the kick and hi-hat pedals clean and all the moving parts in good shape and lubricated.

And....the throne. Drum thrones rattle and squeak too. Keep them in good shape.

The only noise you want from your drums are the drums. Drums have a lot of moving parts and lots of potential for extra squeaks and rattles that will definitely find their way into the mics.

The Clash's "Jail Guitar Doors" has a clunky noisy hi-hat in the intro. They didn't realize it until mix time, and just left it. Topper Headon said he had a bent hi-hat rod and didn't know it.

[WhiskeyJack]

https://www.costco.ca/Roland-MFD-1-Comp ... 36418.html