JUNE Project Old Style?

[rayc]

@rayc I can't tell which track is the most recent? There is one at the very bottom tagged JUNE2020PTUNEnofat. IS that the one?

Shan,
BOTTOM of the pile...EXT.

[Bubba]

Ray you gotta bring the vocals up in the mix so we can really hear them. It's hard to judge with them being so buried. I know you're a little self-conscious about it, but you need not be. Vocals are just another instrument. Mix them like you would bass or guitar. Let them be heard.

I couldn't agree more, Greg. Get the vocals up in the Mix, Ray. At the moment they're buried as if they were Jimmy Savile's sex crimes. We want to hear them.

[rayc]

[mention]Greg_L[/mention] & [mention]Bubba[/mention]
LOUDER vocal as requested...

JUNE2020extbbgd.mp3

[Greg_L]

@Greg_L & @Bubba
LOUDER vocal as requested...
JUNE2020extbbgd.mp3

That is better, but man you still got more room to bring them up.

[rayc]

@Greg_L & @Bubba
LOUDER vocal as requested...
JUNE2020extbbgd.mp3

That is better, but man you still got more room to bring them up.

Here you go Greg,
it's painful though.
Can you hear any problems FX or sonically wrong with the vocals? Apart from pitch, timbre etc.
With no reverb (I hope) it doesn't sit IN the mix to my ears.

JUNE2020extbb2gd.mp3

[Greg_L]

Here you go Greg,
it's painful though.
Can you hear any problems FX or sonically wrong with the vocals? Apart from pitch, timbre etc.
With no reverb (I hope) it doesn't sit IN the mix to my ears.
JUNE2020extbb2gd.mp3

Whatever you have doubling or chorusing the vocals makes it sound indistinct and roomy-ish....even though it isn't that roomy. Delay will do that. Reverb is just delay, afterall. Or maybe your vocal mic is picking up a lot of room. It sounds like you might be singing distant off the mic. Hard to tell. But it's not as clear and direct as I feel it could be or should be. But ultimately it's your call.

[rayc]

Here you go Greg,
it's painful though.
Can you hear any problems FX or sonically wrong with the vocals? Apart from pitch, timbre etc.
With no reverb (I hope) it doesn't sit IN the mix to my ears.
JUNE2020extbb2gd.mp3

Whatever you have doubling or chorusing the vocals makes it sound indistinct and roomy-ish....even though it isn't that roomy. Delay will do that. Reverb is just delay, afterall. Or maybe your vocal mic is picking up a lot of room. It sounds like you might be singing distant off the mic. Hard to tell. But it's not as clear and direct as I feel it could be or should be. But ultimately it's your call.

There's ReaDelay vocal Fattener on some, compression on all and that's about it. I did, actually, record double tracks for verses and chorus as well as a matched lower vocal to blend into the verses - yes, you said that could be ace or a disaster - looks like it wasn't ace.
I also recorded the verses, including the double tracks) with a pair of mics that were blended iTB as per mic'ing a cab.
Could be that my doubles aren't tight enough.
Easy enough.
I'll start again, try to get a decent single take and work from there. No rush...now I have some direction as to where I may've been going wrong I can start again and attempt to avoid the problems.
SKIP A.T.D. (done)
SKIP Vocal fattener - easy
SKIP, for the moment, double tracking
Stay close to the mic
Tomorrow's task.
Thank you.

[Greg_L]

There's ReaDelay vocal Fattener on some, compression on all and that's about it. I did, actually, record double tracks for verses and chorus as well as a matched lower vocal to blend into the verses - yes, you said that could be ace or a disaster - looks like it wasn't ace.
I also recorded the verses, including the double tracks) with a pair of mics that were blended iTB as per mic'ing a cab.
Could be that my doubles aren't tight enough.
Easy enough.
I'll start again, try to get a decent single take and work from there. No rush...now I have some direction as to where I may've been going wrong I can start again and attempt to avoid the problems.
SKIP A.T.D. (done)
SKIP Vocal fattener - easy
SKIP, for the moment, double tracking
Stay close to the mic
Tomorrow's task.
Thank you.

Ok well hold on, you double mic vocals? That's pretty wild. That alone could be causing the sound issues. Phasing is a potential problem when miking stationary objects. Add a moving singer and it's a nightmare scenario with two mics.

Double tracking (not double miking) is good if, as you know, you nail it the takes. Think about why we do it for guitars....it's because we want a big huge sound. The little differences make the guitar tracks sound big and full. But on vocals, those little differences just make it sound like two people. The takes have to be really on point. Starts and stops of phrases and hard consonants really need to be tight, or it sounds messy. One vocal take is better than two messy vocal takes. Two really good vocal takes can be better than one take, but not always. Adding a "vocal fattener" doesn't sound like a good idea to me if you already have multiple tracks.

Stay close to the mic, to a point. You don't want plosives and too much proximity effect on vocal tracks. I don't know that your vocal mic is picking up too much room, it was just a guess. A pencil length of distance should be plenty.

[vomitHatSteve]

The vocals are at an appropriate volume in the latest mix. They are kind of sitting outside of the mix. Your FX chain makes them sound like they're in a similar but very distinct space from the rest of the band.

It's a matching genre, but a very different room.

[WhiskeyJack]

That is better, but man you still got more room to bring them up.

Here you go Greg,
it's painful though.
Can you hear any problems FX or sonically wrong with the vocals? Apart from pitch, timbre etc.
With no reverb (I hope) it doesn't sit IN the mix to my ears.
JUNE2020extbb2gd.mp3

I'm digging this mix Ray. Level wise you are just about there. I think it could have even gotten bumped a wee bit more. I really like your voice in your own songs dude. I know that sounds like just fluff but i do.

I think Greg and VHS are steering you to fixing the vocal mix and stuff on a level that surpasses my skills. I'll tap out but keep watching the thread.

[Greg_L]

I'm digging this mix Ray. Level wise you are just about there. I think it could have even gotten bumped a wee bit more.

This is true. There is still room for more vocals.

[rayc]

OK,
[mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention] and [mention]Greg_L[/mention] ,
New mix, louder vocals NEW vocals only one track for verse and one for chorus.
Volume automation, a little compression, a 60Hz high pass on the vocal bus, (there was a blob that kept appearing below that), and a TINY bit of tuning.
***For those who tripped over this the vocal is exposed in all its reediness to assess what problem/artefacts the audio acquired during recording.

JUNE2020extDgd.mp3

[vomitHatSteve]

You know what could be a good melody writing/arrangement exercise? Since you can hit both octaves of this melody, why not do everything in between too? Do 4 vocal parts: base, third, fifth, and octave of the entire song. Then play around with those parts to see which sounds best both in terms of melody and in terms of vocal performance. Frankenstein together the best vocal line you can; then sing that part alone.

[rayc]

You know what could be a good melody writing/arrangement exercise? Since you can hit both octaves of this melody, why not do everything in between too? Do 4 vocal parts: base, third, fifth, and octave of the entire song. Then play around with those parts to see which sounds best both in terms of melody and in terms of vocal performance. Frankenstein together the best vocal line you can; then sing that part alone.

Bolt On Melodies...yeah.
IF I could find the notes and sing the parts I'll give it a whirl.
I'll probably have to play them and then try to hit them.
Thanks Steve.

[Greg_L]

OK,
@WhiskeyJack and @Greg_L ,
New mix, louder vocals NEW vocals only one track for verse and one for chorus.
Volume automation, a little compression, a 60Hz high pass on the vocal bus, (there was a blob that kept appearing below that), and a TINY bit of tuning.
***For those who tripped over this the vocal is exposed in all its reediness to assess what problem/artefacts the audio acquired during recording.
JUNE2020extDgd.mp3

Now you're getting somewhere. Clearer, focused, better in the mix.

Now we can move on to your performance. I know you don't feel great about your vocals and I'm here to tell you, fuck that. All you need to do is belt it out with a little more conviction. Did Joe Strummer or Johnny Rotten or Kurt Cobain have beautiful singing voices? No way. Not even close. But you believe them because they sang what they sang with passion and conviction. It connected with people. When Joe Strummer belted out "London's Burning!"...you felt that. I felt that and I was a decade late and thousands of miles away. When Johnny Rotten sang that first line "I am the anti-Christ" he really fucking was the antichrist in that moment. I'm not saying you have to yell and snarl. I'm just saying it sounds like you're a little timid in your delivery. Sing it with gusto, sing loud, and see what happens.

[rayc]

I rewrote the
melody" using midi and sorted it against the phrasing BUT I couldn't sing it...Doh! It was simple enough but I can't do intervals to match syllables with any degree of accuracy at this stage.
I did retrack with a little more confidence though.
Lower vocal for the main but with a higher one to boost the chorus.
It all falters at the last chorus but I can work on retracking if the performance and relative tuning get a thumbs up.

JUNE2020extG.mp3

[mention]Greg_L[/mention] and [mention]vomitHatSteve[/mention] ,
This vocal recording hasn't been diced n sliced or cough n sniffle cleansed - I'll get to that if...
I'll keep trying to sing the melody I wrote...simple enough and based on chord tones, but it may not come off.

[Greg_L]

I rewrote the
melody" using midi and sorted it against the phrasing BUT I couldn't sing it...Doh! It was simple enough but I can't do intervals to match syllables with any degree of accuracy at this stage.
I did retrack with a little more confidence though.
Lower vocal for the main but with a higher one to boost the chorus.
It all falters at the last chorus but I can work on retracking if the performance and relative tuning get a thumbs up.
JUNE2020extG.mp3
@Greg_L and @vomitHatSteve ,
This vocal recording hasn't been diced n sliced or cough n sniffle cleansed - I'll get to that if...
I'll keep trying to sing the melody I wrote...simple enough and based on chord tones, but it may not come off.

I still think the verse parts need to come up. The choruses are okay, so get the verses up the with them. I also think you need to still find a melody that lifts your voice more. You're still just talk-singing and the register is so low you're slamming against the bottom of your range. Man, buddy, push some air! If you can't do it, then you can't do it, and you work with what you got. I get that. But to me, I'm hearing you basically just talking slowly and I know that somewhere inside your body is a more powerful voice that might not sing beautifully but it will sing with some gusto.

[vomitHatSteve]

I feel like I'm hearing some lip smacks or something? There's one right before the first chorus. They're before the start of a lot of lines tho.

The vocals are starting to sound pretty good. If you could get all your deliveries to the level of how you do "intermusculaaar", you'd have a really good vocal.

[rayc]

I feel like I'm hearing some lip smacks or something? There's one right before the first chorus. They're before the start of a lot of lines tho.
The vocals are starting to sound pretty good. If you could get all your deliveries to the level of how you do "intermusculaaar", you'd have a really good vocal.

Thanks Steve. I didn't do any detailed noise editing so smacks'n'huffs abound.
Yeah, it's a mind game now...battling my imprinted impression of the "melody".

[rayc]

I've tried to get some more melodic stuff in the vocal. I've managed some but it's made the thing all the harder for me to sing.
This mix has three vocals sliced n diced to get some semblance of accuracy and flow.
I've used chord notes mainly and occasionally try to finish a line on a 5th etc.
levels need adjustment as do plosives and sibilant stuff but i won't bother if it's not an improvement.
Messy BUT...is it progress?
Please enlighten...

JUNE2020extKgd.mp3