Today's project

[Bill L]

New mix...
I listened carefully to the hand claps - how many tracks of them did you do?
I can't recall the details from my 1st listen so can only offer that this mix is coooool. I'll have to drag out the LP now.

Thanks Ray. I think it's like six tracks of claps. I think that's about the bare minimum I could get away with.

Tip: A good cheat way to do handclaps is to wear shorts and slap your legs. You get two "claps" at once. It stings but it works. If it weren't so cold I'd be wearing shorts and would have done that myself for this one. I hate handclaps. Rami used to layer in finger snaps too. That's also good for the pop sound in a handclap. I didn't wanna dive that far into it.

I would imagine that a tight slap back delay and very tight small room reverb added to that would make the claps pop. But I'm just guessing as I've never done hand claps.

[Greg_L]

I would imagine that a tight slap back delay and very tight small room reverb added to that would make the claps pop. But I'm just guessing as I've never done hand claps.

Reverb is good. I don't like delay on claps. It sounds like one of those springy doorstopper things you find on baseboards.

[Bill L]

Maybe cut some high end? Really quick with a roll off on the high end, I think, would tighten it up. I always think of The Who's Who Are You when I think of claps. And I believe they did a couple of passes with all 4 of them clapping and then added something. I've always assumed it was delay and reverb. But then again, what the hell do I know.

[Bubba]

Reverb is good.

Yes, I agree. Everybody has their own mixing choices. More often than not, I come across recording people who thoroughly dislike reverb. I love reverb and the creative possibilities it gives me. Not understanding reverb and what it can do for your mix, or worse deliberately eschewing reverb as a prejudiced choice is incomprehensible to me. I understand if people want a drier mix for a certain project. It's an artistic choice like anything else. But I mostly see folks who hate reverb being rooted in the seventies. Then again, too much reverb is symptomatic of being rooted in the eighties! But reverb doesn't have to be a washy mess. What would Surfer Rosa have been without that intense, roomy drum sound?

To leave reverb out of a mix because of prejudice is like leaving a primary colour out of your pallete.

That said, I don't think Greg is one of those mixers.

[Greg_L]

Maybe cut some high end? Really quick with a roll off on the high end, I think, would tighten it up. I always think of The Who's Who Are You when I think of claps. And I believe they did a couple of passes with all 4 of them clapping and then added something. I've always assumed it was delay and reverb. But then again, what the hell do I know.

But you just said it.....four of them clapping. And all four of them probably clapped more than once. Say there's four tracks of four guys clapping. That's a lot of claps. When you have a lot of claps, it's easy to deal with claps.

The clap is not so easy to deal with.

[Greg_L]

Yes, I agree. Everybody has their own mixing choices. More often than not, I come across recording people who thoroughly dislike reverb. I love reverb and the creative possibilities it gives me. Not understanding reverb and what it can do for your mix, or worse deliberately eschewing reverb as a prejudiced choice is incomprehensible to me. I understand if people want a drier mix for a certain project. It's an artistic choice like anything else. But I mostly see folks who hate reverb being rooted in the seventies. Then again, too much reverb is symptomatic of being rooted in the eighties! But reverb doesn't have to be a washy mess. What would Surfer Rosa have been without that intense, roomy drum sound?

To leave reverb out of a mix because of prejudice is like leaving a primary colour out of your pallete.

That said, I don't think Greg is one of those mixers.

I go back and forth between dry and some reverb. I mostly hate reverb when it's egregious. I love reverb for what it is. I don't like reverb abuse. I like to use reverb when you can't really tell it's there but you notice it if it isn't. Something like Surfer Rosa does have tons of reverb but it's so good I don't even notice it. That's good use of reverb.

[Bubba]

Sorry for hijacking the thread. It's just that I had a conversation recently with someone who disliked panning in a mix because it wasn't natural! It departed from their ideal of a piece of music sounding like four guys jamming in the church hall when the listener was about ten feet away from the stage, so they didn't do it. I admit to being thoroughly perplexed by this idea.

[Bubba]

Yes, I agree. Everybody has their own mixing choices. More often than not, I come across recording people who thoroughly dislike reverb. I love reverb and the creative possibilities it gives me. Not understanding reverb and what it can do for your mix, or worse deliberately eschewing reverb as a prejudiced choice is incomprehensible to me. I understand if people want a drier mix for a certain project. It's an artistic choice like anything else. But I mostly see folks who hate reverb being rooted in the seventies. Then again, too much reverb is symptomatic of being rooted in the eighties! But reverb doesn't have to be a washy mess. What would Surfer Rosa have been without that intense, roomy drum sound?

To leave reverb out of a mix because of prejudice is like leaving a primary colour out of your pallete.

That said, I don't think Greg is one of those mixers.

I go back and forth between dry and some reverb. I mostly hate reverb when it's egregious. I love reverb for what it is. I don't like reverb abuse. I like to use reverb when you can't really tell it's there but you notice it if it isn't. Something like Surfer Rosa does have tons of reverb but it's so good I don't even notice it. That's good use of reverb.

And an Eighties snare with a cavern of reverb on it is, as you say, egregious. The character of reverb I want to use on a track is an important a choice to me as the guitar sound. My choices admittely tend towards the ambient, but as J Mascis says, if I'm going to use an effect, I wanna fuckin' hear it.

Once again, sorry for hijacking.

[Greg_L]

Sorry for hijacking the thread. It's just that I had a conversation recently with someone who disliked panning in a mix because it wasn't natural! It departed from their ideal of a piece of music sounding like four guys jamming in the church hall when the listener was about ten feet away from the stage, so they didn't do it. I admit to being thoroughly perplexed by this idea.

No worries on the hijack. I don't care.

People always use stupid ideas to bolster whatever weird hangups they have. I used to argue with HR morons about how sims sound bad most of the time etc. Their response was "well you use digital reverb blah blah blah". It's not the fucking same.

I can understand someone wanting to mix in mono if they want to capture or create a "live" sound. That is how we hear things, sort of. A good mono mix is pretty awesome. A mono mix with a stereo reverb can be pretty good. But the whole point of making a multitrack mix is to make it superhuman, right? I'm kind of a purist but I wouldn't limit myself like that.

[Greg_L]

And an Eighties snare with a cavern of reverb on it is, as you say, egregious. The character of reverb I want to use on a track is an important a choice to me as the guitar sound. My choices admittely tend towards the ambient, but as J Mascis says, if I'm going to use an effect, I wanna fuckin' hear it.

Once again, sorry for hijacking.

The gated reverb snare drum is the worst thing to ever happen to recorded music.

[Bubba]

the whole point of making a multitrack mix is to make it superhuman, right?

This is exactly my point. There is nothing wrong with deciding one of your projects ought to be mono, or conservatively panned, or whatever else. To make this decision a template for everything one does is retarded. The same goes for reverb. Panning, eq, reverb, level balancing... they are the basic tools you have for creating a mix. There are people that want to leave two of those colours out of their palette.

I think most of them are in the MP3 clinic at HR.

[Greg_L]

I think most of them are in the MP3 clinic at HR.

I use mixes like this little cover song in this thread as my test mules for new ideas, tricks, gear, etc.

I did a lot of stuff out of my norm....even though it probably still sounds like any other Greg mix. But I know what's going on and some of it will apply to other more serious stuff.

[Bubba]

I think most of them are in the MP3 clinic at HR.

I use mixes like this little cover song in this thread as my test mules for new ideas, tricks, gear, etc.

I did a lot of stuff out of my norm....even though it probably still sounds like any other Greg mix. But I know what's going on and some of it will apply to other more serious stuff.

I totally get this. My cover songs have been partly an Hommage by a fan, and partly an exercise of trying to work out exactly what the fuck those bands, producers and mixers did to make the recording they did, then I can use those tools myself. If you want to understand something, take it to bits then try to copy it, or put it back together. I'm convinced that this wanting to get to the bottom of things has made me a better recordist.

[Greg_L]

I totally get this. My cover songs have been partly an Hommage by a fan, and partly an exercise of trying to work out exactly what the fuck those bands, producers and mixers did to make the recording they did, then I can use those tools myself. If you want to understand something, take it to bits then try to copy it, or put it back together. I'm convinced that this wanting to get to the bottom of things has made me a better recordist.

Right. I'm sure Ray might remember this but I used to record tons of cover songs. All sorts of shit. KISS, Thin Lizzy, the Kinks, all kinds of stuff I'd never really get into but it was good to dissect that stuff and learn my chops without wasting original material with bad mixes.

[rayc]

The gated reverb snare drum is the worst thing to ever happen to recorded music.

Jack n Dianne style?
Yep, it was a long time of covers as you learnt the craft before you started creating originals to apply those skills to.
Some glorious stuff most of which I had a HDD - naturally that drive died and I'm left bereft.
Now, should you decide to make a CD of your covers.....Gregor The Terror's Apprentice Pieces.

[Greg_L]

Jack n Dianne style?

Yeah or literally any pop hit from the 80s.

[Lt. Bob]

lol ...... you're so bad ass man ........ walks away shaking his head

[JD01]

I totally get this. My cover songs have been partly an Hommage by a fan, and partly an exercise of trying to work out exactly what the fuck those bands, producers and mixers did to make the recording they did, then I can use those tools myself. If you want to understand something, take it to bits then try to copy it, or put it back together. I'm convinced that this wanting to get to the bottom of things has made me a better recordist.

Right. I'm sure Ray might remember this but I used to record tons of cover songs. All sorts of shit. KISS, Thin Lizzy, the Kinks, all kinds of stuff I'd never really get into but it was good to dissect that stuff and learn my chops without wasting original material with bad mixes.

I wish I'd done more covers when I started trying to record. They're a much easier way of learning stuff than fucking up your own songs.

[JD01]

New mix is excellent - listening at home now so different headphones (just a pair of Skull Candy ones that I have in my home office).
Sounds really good anyway... I do quite like the original but the recording quality on this is actually better. Although I did just go back and listen to the original and its much better than I remember it being and the vocal on it is really dry too.

Quick question - is the lead vocal panned ever so slightly to the left in the verses? Might be either my ears being a bit watery or these headphones being shit.

[Greg_L]

lol ...... you're so bad ass man ........ walks away shaking his head

Lol no, but thanks anyway Boob.

New mix is excellent - listening at home now so different headphones (just a pair of Skull Candy ones that I have in my home office).
Sounds really good anyway... I do quite like the original but the recording quality on this is actually better. Although I did just go back and listen to the original and its much better than I remember it being and the vocal on it is really dry too.

Quick question - is the lead vocal panned ever so slightly to the left in the verses? Might be either my ears being a bit watery or these headphones being shit.

Thanks J. No the vocal is not panned at all.