Takes What's Free

[JD01]

Gents, I actually did another mix this week on what are usually my tracking cans and my mate's monitors that are much better than mine (although he's got a mental bass resonance on B in his room!) When I mentioned it to him he knew straight away was I was talking about!

I used the mid cut on the vocal and a little bit of other massaging and it seems to sit better to me - see if you can tell the difference. The cut ended up being a 7db fairly narrow cut at 350hz and I slightly increased my 1250hz bump too.

Take Whats Free Mix 2.mp3

WJ, I adjusted the drums too.

[Bubba]

I'm not sure a 1250 Hz bump would make that much difference to me - that's at the top of my hearing range these days. There's very little HF content that high in the human voice as far as I'm aware! I'll listen to the mix anyway!

I think it needs a little boost in the high mids - 2-4 kHz. Give the voice a little more bite without increasing the sibilance. The mid cut has made a difference - try a bit more.

[JD01]

I'm not sure a 1250 Hz bump would make that much difference to me - that's at the top of my hearing range these days. There's very little HF content that high in the human voice as far as I'm aware! I'll listen to the mix anyway!

I think it needs a little boost in the high mids - 2-4 kHz. Give the voice a little more cut without increasing the sibilance. The mid cut has made a difference - try a bit more.

Eh? 1250 is lower than 2-4? I've actually got a massive cut in the 2-4 range cos my voice seems to naturally do a really nasty drone there. I'll take you a screen shot tomorrow.

I'll try and replicate the changes I've made to this project on my system at home when I get back tomorrow night then try a bigger cut at around 350.

[Bubba]

I'm not sure a 1250 Hz bump would make that much difference to me - that's at the top of my hearing range these days. There's very little HF content that high in the human voice as far as I'm aware! I'll listen to the mix anyway!

I think it needs a little boost in the high mids - 2-4 kHz. Give the voice a little more cut without increasing the sibilance. The mid cut has made a difference - try a bit more.

Eh? 1250 is lower than 2-4? I've actually got a massive cut in the 2-4 range cos my voice seems to naturally do a really nasty drone there. I'll take you a screen shot tomorrow.

I'll try and replicate the changes I've made to this project on my system at home when I get back tomorrow night then try a bigger cut at around 350.

LOL - brain fart. I read it as being in the 12k area. Ignore me.

[JD01]

Haha, ok

[vomitHatSteve]

I'm really not hearing much difference.

[JD01]

I'm really not hearing much difference.

Maybe I need to be a bit more savage with it as Bubba said - I'll do that at home though.

[JD01]

OK, I've done a pretty savage cut as Bubba said - back on my home system now too. This seems to be a bit better, with the vocal sitting in the mix more and not being quite so forthright. I've made a couple of other minor adjustments too.

Take Whats Free Mix 3.mp3

This was my eventual vocal EQ:

Vox EQ.JPG

[Greg_L]

Lol @ that EQ.

IMO there is some good and bad in this mix (Mix 3). The bass playing is real good. I think the guitar tones are pretty thin but they hold up okay. The bass tone is much less clacky than it used to be. I think you need to work on a better relationship between your kick and bass tone, and the programming/performance. It sounds like you have the kick doing things that don't really jive with the bass. The kick sound and bass tone kind of occupy the same boxy low mid space and they take turns vanishing in the mix. Sometimes the kick pops, sometimes the bass pops, and that back and forth is weird. It's like you're making everything a lead instrument and it just sends up sounding disjointed. It might be time to look into some better drum samples. I don't know what you're doing to the ones you got, but the snare sounds kind of dull. And I already mentioned the kick. You've spent all this time on guitar work, address the other stuff too. And the vocals....I think you need to stop with the double tracking. It doesn't work. Your vocal skills are not at a place where double tracking would be beneficial. I'm not trying to be mean here, I'm just saying, one bad track is better than stacking two bad tracks. Lol. You'd probably be a good candidate for doing many takes, and instead of stacking them, try comping one good take from all of the other takes. This isn't some Whitney Houston song. You're just blurting out words. Just get them in time and pretty close to some relevant pitch and it'll be fine on a song like this. I think your drastic EQ definitely hurt the clarity and top end in the vocal track. That's a lot of negatives, here's some positives: The guitar tones are getting better, the bass tone is much improved, the bass playing is fantastic, the vocal sound overall is better than it used to be, the levels in the mix are pretty well balanced.

[WhiskeyJack]

OK, I've done a pretty savage cut as Bubba said - back on my home system now too. This seems to be a bit better, with the vocal sitting in the mix more and not being quite so forthright. I've made a couple of other minor adjustments too.
Take Whats Free Mix 3.mp3

This was my eventual vocal EQ:
Vox EQ.JPG

I haven't listened ot mix three yet but i am not wondering if all the "Solid brick wall" sound to your vox isn't just from it being overly compressed or not enough room between you and the mic?

One of the covers i have been working on recently got some vocals thrown on it over the xmas holidays and i went and listened to it over the weekend and god dam if if they didn't have the same sonic qualities as these vocals do. Once i eased up on some of the compression and more notably the saturation on the fish fillets comp i use for vocals, it really seems to have relaxed the sound a bit.

just a random thought i'd toss at you.

[JD01]

Cheers Greg - this is obviously one of the best mixes I've done so we're getting into minutiae now so I'm obviously making progress.
I've no clue how I would sort out a kick and bass relationship, but I guess its something I can work on.
I'm still using the basic EZ Drummer with no extra bits. Might be about time I upgraded, or I can try EQing my kick and bass a bit. I'll take a look this week.

Hmm, the vocal was odd, that massive cut at about 3k was 'cos there was something really weird in there that just sounded horrible - it needed to go. You know when you know there's something shite in there so you find it by making a bit narrow spike and moving it up and down until the horrible bit jumps out then cut it.


The hi-pass was just moving it up while it sounded better and better, until it started sounding shit and then moving it back down a bit.
I know I need to practice my singing a lot more, I'll have another look at the double tracking and reduce it a bunch more. I don't want to draw undue attention to my ropey singing.

You mentioned the thinish guitars on this when it was a prevocal mix, I tried scooping them a bit and then turning them up, to give them a bit more chunk, it kind of half worked. But they'd need re-tracking to do anything better and I was really happy with the performances.. unless you know of any other bright ideas to chunk them up.

[JD01]

OK, I've done a pretty savage cut as Bubba said - back on my home system now too. This seems to be a bit better, with the vocal sitting in the mix more and not being quite so forthright. I've made a couple of other minor adjustments too.
Take Whats Free Mix 3.mp3

This was my eventual vocal EQ:
Vox EQ.JPG

I haven't listened ot mix three yet but i am not wondering if all the "Solid brick wall" sound to your vox isn't just from it being overly compressed or not enough room between you and the mic?

One of the covers i have been working on recently got some vocals thrown on it over the xmas holidays and i went and listened to it over the weekend and god dam if if they didn't have the same sonic qualities as these vocals do. Once i eased up on some of the compression and more notably the saturation on the fish fillets comp i use for vocals, it really seems to have relaxed the sound a bit.

just a random thought i'd toss at you.

That "solid" sound was improved by the drastic hi-pass. Have a listen if you get a minute, no worries if you haven't got time.

[WhiskeyJack]

I haven't listened ot mix three yet but i am not wondering if all the "Solid brick wall" sound to your vox isn't just from it being overly compressed or not enough room between you and the mic?

One of the covers i have been working on recently got some vocals thrown on it over the xmas holidays and i went and listened to it over the weekend and god dam if if they didn't have the same sonic qualities as these vocals do. Once i eased up on some of the compression and more notably the saturation on the fish fillets comp i use for vocals, it really seems to have relaxed the sound a bit.

just a random thought i'd toss at you.

That "solid" sound was improved by the drastic hi-pass. Have a listen if you get a minute, no worries if you haven't got time.

I reserve my listening booth and tone thread stuff for my monitors and stuff. earbuds are just lying little bitches i have learned. I'll try and sneak down tonight and give it all good going over. I just saw your thread pop up in and it kind of hit me. I'll give it a review tonight.

[Greg_L]

What "kick" are you using in EZ Drummer? Before you go mangling everything with even more EQ, just try a different kick sample. I think the 400hz area is pretty bad for rock kicks. Look for something with more thud and slap and less boxy shit in the middle. Don't try to puzzle piece the kick and bass together. Just focus on better kicks for now.

I understand your vocal cut technique, but I think you went too far. You took all of the air and a bunch of the clarity out of the vocal track. It sounds dull and murky - even with ALL of the lows and mids taken out. It still sounds dark. That's a neat trick, but not good for sound lol.

Scooping the guitars is probably not the best remedy for thin problems. I guess it just depends. If this is in standard 440 tuning, I'd probably look for the resonant frequency of whatever key the song is in and do a little tiny boost in the guitars in that area to beef them up a little.

[Bubba]

I understand your vocal cut technique, but I think you went too far. You took all of the air and a bunch of the clarity out of the vocal track. It sounds dull and murky - even with ALL of the lows and mids taken out. It still sounds dark. That's a neat trick, but not good for sound lol.

Yeah, I really don't understand that deep cut at just over 3k. That's right in the area where I would want more bite.

[JD01]

I understand your vocal cut technique, but I think you went too far. You took all of the air and a bunch of the clarity out of the vocal track. It sounds dull and murky - even with ALL of the lows and mids taken out. It still sounds dark. That's a neat trick, but not good for sound lol.

Yeah, I really don't understand that deep cut at just over 3k. That's right in the area where I would want more bite.

There was a hideous frequency there that I could feel behind the eyes!

[Bubba]

Yeah, I really don't understand that deep cut at just over 3k. That's right in the area where I would want more bite.

There was a hideous frequency there that I could feel behind the eyes!

Are you sure it wasn't an artefact from the doubling? Also, a point frequency cut like that should be far narrower - you're in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[Greg_L]

Are you sure it wasn't an artefact from the doubling? Also, a point frequency cut like that should be far narrower - you're in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

This

[JD01]

There was a hideous frequency there that I could feel behind the eyes!

Are you sure it wasn't an artefact from the doubling? Also, a point frequency cut like that should be far narrower - you're in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Cool - I'll take a look at it later.

[WhiskeyJack]

There was a hideous frequency there that I could feel behind the eyes!

throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I don't even want to know the origins of this saying.