The Tone Thread

[JD01]

Lol. Maybe I've gone a bit far with the drum realism. I have the hi hat changing all over the place. 5 minutes to sort that out though.

The tones are based on what ocnor told me to try a couple of weeks ago with a bit of extra sculpting with the boss GE7 to take the box in essence out. Was very careful around the mids. There's even a little boost in there at 800k. I also have the C1000S in there very quietly, just makes the whole thing sound bigger. It has taken me about a year of Tone Threading to get to this point!

Any tips you can give me on the mix there would be good as I've changed my mixing a fair bit since listening to the White Riot mix. I don't have this mix with me this week though, I've not copied it to my week day lap top

[Bill L]

I haven't posted a tone in a while so here's one from late November 2016. The drummer gets a couple of brain farts but there you go. I'm using my '91 Les Paul Custom with the Jekyll and Hyde through a '61 Fender Princeton mic'd with a Senn E 609. The drums had a Beta 52 on the kick and a pair of Oktava MK-012's for overheads. My snare mic clip was broken so there's nothing on the snare for this one. Recorded direct to my computer using the Behringer X18 R Air.

The songAs Long As You Love Me

This is the space where it was recorded.

[ShanPeyton]

I took a few minutes to grab a few tones. This first clip is my typical mic set up and amp settings. Just a lame quick riff nothing fancy.

Ibanez PF350 Bridge P/up > Orange AD30> PPC412 Celstion V30 top left speaker about a 1cm W-NW from dust cap seam on the cloth > SM57

Master - 5
Treb - 4
Middle - 6
Bass - 6
Gain -6.5



I took some of gregs advice to find a tone i like with my ears and try to capture it after that as best i can. With the new info i learned about how this amp's EQ knobs work and having everything in one room while i reno the big room i tried a bunch of new stuff. The mic placement didn't really move much at all. My ears seem to like it here. But i was just jamming on ten 6 feet away from that amp. So they might be playing tricks on me.

Ibanez PF350 Bridge P/up > Orange AD30> PPC412 Celstion V30 top left speaker about a 1cm W-NW from dust cap seam on the cloth > SM57

Master - 8
Treb - 10
Middle - 10
Bass - 10
Gain - 5



I tried to dime this as per some threads i read else where about this thing and it just sounded shit. pure shit. to my understanding it is designed to be a dimed amp but if the gain goes anywhere near or past 7 it is just fizzy and gross. It might be nice to some other people in a band that like to sound like a fizzy fuzz rock band but not my style. I think for the most part i like the idea of the eq knobs being dimed and then sort of tinker with the master, gain and mic to really fine tune the sound coming out.

Interesting to hear what other have to say think. And if you have suggestions by all means make them.

[Minerman]

Just a quick post/reply to make sure my franken-keyboard works lke it should...I added about 20 feet of cable to an old pc keyboard to use while I'm behind my drum kit.....So far, so good, now I'm gonna do the same thing to a headphone cable...Eventually I'll everything lined out so I don't have to keep running back/forth to adjust something in the daw while I'm behind the kit...

I'll give your clips a whirl in a little while Shan...I'm glad you posted about your cab, for some reason I thought you had a combo amp....

[Greg_L]

The songAs Long As You Love Me

This is the space where it was recorded.

Ha cool. Almost a rockabilly sound. You got that little Princeton working hard. The drums are little lacking, but you were short handed. Good live recording.

[Greg_L]

I took a few minutes to grab a few tones. This first clip is my typical mic set up and amp settings. Just a lame quick riff nothing fancy.

Ibanez PF350 Bridge P/up > Orange AD30> PPC412 Celstion V30 top left speaker about a 1cm W-NW from dust cap seam on the cloth > SM57

Master - 5
Treb - 4
Middle - 6
Bass - 6
Gain -6.5

This one sounds pretty good. A little murky to me. But not too bad at all. Definitely usable IMO.

I took some of gregs advice to find a tone i like with my ears and try to capture it after that as best i can. With the new info i learned about how this amp's EQ knobs work and having everything in one room while i reno the big room i tried a bunch of new stuff. The mic placement didn't really move much at all. My ears seem to like it here. But i was just jamming on ten 6 feet away from that amp. So they might be playing tricks on me.

Ibanez PF350 Bridge P/up > Orange AD30> PPC412 Celstion V30 top left speaker about a 1cm W-NW from dust cap seam on the cloth > SM57

Master - 8
Treb - 10
Middle - 10
Bass - 10
Gain - 5



I tried to dime this as per some threads i read else where about this thing and it just sounded shit. pure shit. to my understanding it is designed to be a dimed amp but if the gain goes anywhere near or past 7 it is just fizzy and gross. It might be nice to some other people in a band that like to sound like a fizzy fuzz rock band but not my style. I think for the most part i like the idea of the eq knobs being dimed and then sort of tinker with the master, gain and mic to really fine tune the sound coming out.

Interesting to hear what other have to say think. And if you have suggestions by all means make them.

Now this one, to me, is starting to cook. You're treading real close to "Plexi" sound territory with these settings. It's got a little fizz in it, but not enough to worry about. The midrange bite is better and the highs are better without being shrill. Good punch and clarity to me without too much mush.

It's pretty common to juggle the gain and volume. As volume goes up, preamp gain gets more ugly. So it's not unusual that you'd prefer less gain with more EQ and master vol. You've got the tone stack letting everything through, and the master vol is way up, so you don't need so much preamp boost before the power section. The entire reason preamp gain was ever even invented was so people could try to sound "cranked" at lower overall volumes. If you are actually cranking it, which you are pretty close here, then you simply don't need the mushier, fuzzier preamp gain's help. You get the good stuff from the power section.

[Bill L]

at Shane: I agree with Greg, the second "new settings" clip sounds much crisper and more defined. Looking forward to hearing more stuff as you refine your process.

at Greg: Thanks, we try to mix it up a bit. Got some new fun stuff we're (actually me) working on. The Princeton is the easiest amp ever. Put volume on 8, plug guitar in, adjust the tone pot to taste and let it rip. I use the volume pot to roll off grit.

[Minerman]

Shan: 2nd clip is my pick dude, the first one is ok, but it's kinda flabby, where the 2nd clip sounds tighter & more articulate to me...Both are usable, I just prefer the 2nd toan....Good job!!!

Bill: Cool man, I always like your live recordings, & they seem to be getting better with each one I hear...



I'm sure I've left a lot of tone-tards' clips out, but I'll try to stay of top of it from now on....

[Greg_L]

Okay here's an impromptu mini-shootout. Les Paul vs Les Paul. Cherryburst vs Golddtop. Riff Raff vs Burstbucker 3.

Gibson Les Paul Custom - Bare Knuckles Riff Raff bridge
Gibson Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge
Both guitars have brand new strings.

Marshall JCM 800 2203
Presence - 5
Bass - 5
Mid - 5
Treb - 4
Preamp vol - 7
Master vol - 6
Weber Mass 200 attenuator - 5
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
SM57 on axis, 2" off grill, halfway to edge
No EQ or FX in DAW

See what you think.

LP Custom - BK Riff Raff

LP Traditional - Burstbucker 3

[WhiskeyJack]

Burstbucker sounds way more wide open than the riff raff but lacking a bit of the punch the riff raff has. Chimey and gritty just not as punchy. Riff Raff sounds more like a well rounded burstbucker lacking a bit of chime but but providing a really nice little punch in the gut.

Both are definitely more then useable for sure.

[Minerman]

Okay here's an impromptu mini-shootout. Les Paul vs Les Paul. Cherryburst vs Golddtop. Riff Raff vs Burstbucker 3.

Gibson Les Paul Custom - Bare Knuckles Riff Raff bridge
Gibson Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge
Both guitars have brand new strings.

Marshall JCM 800 2203
Presence - 5
Bass - 5
Mid - 5
Treb - 4
Preamp vol - 7
Master vol - 6
Weber Mass 200 attenuator - 5
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
SM57 on axis, 2" off grill, halfway to edge
No EQ or FX in DAW

See what you think.

LP Custom - BK Riff Raff

LP Traditional - Burstbucker 3

Hard call for me to make dude, they're both good & really similar...The BB p'up seems to be just a tad hotter, with just a cunt hair more highs...Definitely good tones dude, again, it's hard to pick a favorite when you like them both...

[JD01]

Okay here's an impromptu mini-shootout. Les Paul vs Les Paul. Cherryburst vs Golddtop. Riff Raff vs Burstbucker 3.

Gibson Les Paul Custom - Bare Knuckles Riff Raff bridge
Gibson Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge
Both guitars have brand new strings.

Marshall JCM 800 2203
Presence - 5
Bass - 5
Mid - 5
Treb - 4
Preamp vol - 7
Master vol - 6
Weber Mass 200 attenuator - 5
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
SM57 on axis, 2" off grill, halfway to edge
No EQ or FX in DAW

See what you think.

LP Custom - BK Riff Raff

LP Traditional - Burstbucker 3

Both sound great to me - great thick classic rock tone. You thinking about doing a cover there, Greg?

I initially thought that the BB was slightly darker and I found the RR clearer with a bit more bite. You turned the volume up half way through didn't you and after that they were very similar. Do you think the RR loses a bit less treble with the vol backed off?

As I said though, they were both great and would probably be ideal to have both of them in a mix.

[Greg_L]

Thanks guys.

The Burstbucker is definitely a little hotter than the Riff Raff. The BB has more snarly bite, the Riff Raff has better balance across the spectrum. Both sound awesome to me and I'm crazy happy with both.

One thing that I think factors in somehow is that the Traditional is generally just a "snappier" guitar. Unplugged, it's much brighter and snappier than the Custom, which is smoother and more mellow. Notes pop off of the Trad, while the Custom is very smooth and warm. That's how they sound unplugged, I'm just not sure how much of that makes it through a very loud amp. It has to matter some. The necks are the only major difference between the two. The Trad has a mahogany neck, Rosewood fretboard, and normal medium/jumbo frets that are significantly thinner and taller than the Custom's. The Custom has a maple neck, ebony fretboard, and flat, low, wide frets.

As for losing high end with the roll off, I don't find that to be a problem with either pickup. They're pretty similar in that regard. These clips are a little misleading as I may have turned the Riff Raff down further than the BB. I wasn't precise in my roll off. I just tweaked it with my pinky without looking either time. I have no idea what the settings were. Generally, I find the Custom/Riff Raff to stay brighter longer than the Trad/BB when rolling down the vol.

[JD01]

In summary - I think you have an awesome pair of guitars for double tracking. I mainly double track with a split bridge pickup now.

[Greg_L]

In summary - I think you have an awesome pair of guitars for double tracking. I mainly double track with a split bridge pickup now.

Ha yeah, I fucking love these things.

[ido1957]

The songAs Long As You Love Me

This is the space where it was recorded.

Great live vibe Bill, tight as a nun's <***> and the recording's great. Nice tones on the LP (maybe someday I'll get mine to sound as hot. )
So busy enjoying it I never noticed any drum farts.

[ido1957]

I took a few minutes to grab a few tones. This first clip is my typical mic set up and amp settings. Just a lame quick riff nothing fancy.

I tried to dime this as per some threads i read else where about this thing and it just sounded shit. pure shit. to my understanding it is designed to be a dimed amp but if the gain goes anywhere near or past 7 it is just fizzy and gross. It might be nice to some other people in a band that like to sound like a fizzy fuzz rock band but not my style. I think for the most part i like the idea of the eq knobs being dimed and then sort of tinker with the master, gain and mic to really fine tune the sound coming out.

Interesting to hear what other have to say think. And if you have suggestions by all means make them.

Tone #1 is a bit bassy - it might be a little tough to mix it around the bass (although you could just eq the **** out of it )
Tone #2 I could work with much more easily. Brighter, crisper, sounds good to me.

[ido1957]

Okay here's an impromptu mini-shootout. Les Paul vs Les Paul. Cherryburst vs Golddtop. Riff Raff vs Burstbucker 3.

Very Tough Choice but I'm going to pick the LPC - bit smoother on the top end for me.
Also you play it better because you like it more.

[Bill L]

Okay here's an impromptu mini-shootout. Les Paul vs Les Paul. Cherryburst vs Golddtop. Riff Raff vs Burstbucker 3.


LP Custom - BK Riff Raff

LP Traditional - Burstbucker 3

Both very usable tones and would be almost identical in a mix. Great recording and a very cool song. I think I'd lean towards the Riff Raff if I was forced to choose.

The songAs Long As You Love Me

This is the space where it was recorded.

Great live vibe Bill, tight as a nun's <***> and the recording's great. Nice tones on the LP (maybe someday I'll get mine to sound as hot. )
So busy enjoying it I never noticed any drum farts.

Thanks man. The Gibby tone pots are rolled off a bit on both neck and bridge pups . Very hot pups. Drum farts are in the intro when he breaks and the rest of us keep playing and struggles a bit with the beat. After the first break he's pretty solid.

[Greg_L]

Very Tough Choice but I'm going to pick the LPC - bit smoother on the top end for me.
Also you play it better because you like it more.

Ha thanks, I don't know that I like it more, but the LPC has gained a lot of ground on the Goldtop.

Both very usable tones and would be almost identical in a mix. Great recording and a very cool song. I think I'd lean towards the Riff Raff if I was forced to choose.

Cool thanks man.