Closer to Home

[Alison]

Well, here I am back at my folk roots. . . you would not believe the trouble I had with this!! A very simple recording, 1 main guitar, 2 leads, 3 vocals but I think my lack of guitar skills made this very difficult because it is so quiet and simple, mistakes are GLARING!! This is my first attempt at doing any kind of lead playing on guitar. But, as you may know by now, I am determined!

So, have at it!

Closer To Home.mp3

[CrowsofFritz]

Vocals sound great! Can you tell me your guitar set up in detail?

What guitar are you playing? How is it micd? What plugins are you using? I suspect the guitar is somewhere in the $300-$700 range?

The reason I’m putting off buying an acoustic guitar is because I want too good a sound for it, and I’m convinced you need a very expensive acoustic to get the sound I want. I’d much rather have a $1000 acoustic recording into a $50 mic than a $300 acoustic recording into a $1000 mic. The difference in tone is just that great.

[Alison]

Vocals sound great! Can you tell me your guitar set up in detail?

What guitar are you playing? How is it micd? What plugins are you using? I suspect the guitar is somewhere in the $300-$700 range?

The reason I’m putting off buying an acoustic guitar is because I want too good a sound for it, and I’m convinced you need a very expensive acoustic to get the sound I want. I’d much rather have a $1000 acoustic recording into a $50 mic than a $300 acoustic recording into a $1000 mic. The difference in tone is just that great.

Hmm, detail. . . well, I am playing my Martin D-28 which I bought back in the early '70s. I put a mic just behind the bridge and another up the neck but close to the soundhole. Not sure the placement was great but I did like the sound. It's hard to beat a Martin unless it's an old Gibson! Taylors are great acoustic guitars but they are expensive. I love my Martin, just can't play it with what I do live.
As far as plugins go, I just used Eq and reverb.

[CrowsofFritz]

Vocals sound great! Can you tell me your guitar set up in detail?

What guitar are you playing? How is it micd? What plugins are you using? I suspect the guitar is somewhere in the $300-$700 range?

The reason I’m putting off buying an acoustic guitar is because I want too good a sound for it, and I’m convinced you need a very expensive acoustic to get the sound I want. I’d much rather have a $1000 acoustic recording into a $50 mic than a $300 acoustic recording into a $1000 mic. The difference in tone is just that great.

Hmm, detail. . . well, I am playing my Martin D-28 which I bought back in the early '70s. I put a mic just behind the bridge and another up the neck but close to the soundhole. Not sure the placement was great but I did like the sound. It's hard to beat a Martin unless it's an old Gibson! Taylors are great acoustic guitars but they are expensive. I love my Martin, just can't play it with what I do live.
As far as plugins go, I just used Eq and reverb.

Wow, I would have never guessed it’d be that guitar! Sounds like you’ll need to experiment with placement, then. The guitar definitely doesn’t sound bad by any means. It sounds good. I just think it can sound better.

Now that I’m listening on better speakers, it does sound better than I thought. It sounds a bit muffled, though, like the mic was placed in the wrong spot.

John Mayer’s “Daughters” is the sound a strive for when trying to capture acoustic guitar. Round, bright, and still full sounding. Your guitar track sounds good enough that it can be achieved in post. Some more Reverb will help. Are you using any compression? Maybe a small boost in the higher frequencies. But I can’t put my finger on it. In the middle of the song when it was just the two guitars, the one of the right sounded not as full as it could be. I know it was playing individual notes, but I think they could have more meat to them. Listen to the intro to Daughters. Each note sounds rotund. You think you can post each mic track individually?

[Alison]

Hmm, detail. . . well, I am playing my Martin D-28 which I bought back in the early '70s. I put a mic just behind the bridge and another up the neck but close to the soundhole. Not sure the placement was great but I did like the sound. It's hard to beat a Martin unless it's an old Gibson! Taylors are great acoustic guitars but they are expensive. I love my Martin, just can't play it with what I do live.
As far as plugins go, I just used Eq and reverb.

Wow, I would have never guessed it’d be that guitar! Sounds like you’ll need to experiment with placement, then. The guitar definitely doesn’t sound bad by any means. It sounds good. I just think it can sound better.

Now that I’m listening on better speakers, it does sound better than I thought. It sounds a bit muffled, though, like the mic was placed in the wrong spot.

John Mayer’s “Daughters” is the sound a strive for when trying to capture acoustic guitar. Round, bright, and still full sounding. Your guitar track sounds good enough that it can be achieved in post. Some more Reverb will help. Are you using any compression? Maybe a small boost in the higher frequencies. But I can’t put my finger on it. In the middle of the song when it was just the two guitars, the one of the right sounded not as full as it could be. I know it was playing individual notes, but I think they could have more meat to them. Listen to the intro to Daughters. Each note sounds rotund. You think you can post each mic track individually?

I'm very familiar with "Daughters" but I actually liked the "ping" I got from my mic placement. . .the guitar on Daughters is very subdued, I wanted something with more guts. . . because of the song, you know. . .

[CrowsofFritz]

Wow, I would have never guessed it’d be that guitar! Sounds like you’ll need to experiment with placement, then. The guitar definitely doesn’t sound bad by any means. It sounds good. I just think it can sound better.

Now that I’m listening on better speakers, it does sound better than I thought. It sounds a bit muffled, though, like the mic was placed in the wrong spot.

John Mayer’s “Daughters” is the sound a strive for when trying to capture acoustic guitar. Round, bright, and still full sounding. Your guitar track sounds good enough that it can be achieved in post. Some more Reverb will help. Are you using any compression? Maybe a small boost in the higher frequencies. But I can’t put my finger on it. In the middle of the song when it was just the two guitars, the one of the right sounded not as full as it could be. I know it was playing individual notes, but I think they could have more meat to them. Listen to the intro to Daughters. Each note sounds rotund. You think you can post each mic track individually?

I'm very familiar with "Daughters" but I actually liked the "ping" I got from my mic placement. . .the guitar on Daughters is very subdued, I wanted something with more guts. . . because of the song, you know. . .

If it works for you, it works! It sounds good, either way.

[JD01]

Alison - I actually quite like the acoustic sound you're getting on this. You've pretty much got a holy grail guitar there.
Your timing is slightly off in a few spots, but it doesn't matter at all on this recording.
I wouldn't do anything to this - think it works really well.
Vocal is cracking is always.

Is this your "end of covid is in sight" song?

@CrowsofFritz I'm always pleased with my acoustic sound - I use a Mexican Martin about $1000s worth I think. I got it 2nd hand for £500. Just point a condenser at the 15th fret and I'm done.

[Alison]

Alison - I actually quite like the acoustic sound you're getting on this. You've pretty much got a holy grail guitar there.
Your timing is slightly off in a few spots, but it doesn't matter at all on this recording.
I wouldn't do anything to this - think it works really well.
Vocal is cracking is always.

Is this your "end of covid is in sight" song?

@CrowsofFritz I'm always pleased with my acoustic sound - I use a Mexican Martin about $1000s worth I think. I got it 2nd hand for £500. Just point a condenser at the 15th fret and I'm done.

Thank you, JD. I did go in and fix a couple of timing issues (they were bugging me!) and worked on the end so it doesn't quite sound like I'm off to the races .
I've had this guitar since the early '70s. We've been through a lot together! You got lucky finding yours, I bought mine new! Took forever to pay it off.

This is the first time I've attempted any kind of "lead" work so, I'm pretty happy with it! And, yes, it's my "end is near" song. I know it's not over by any means but with vaccines rolling out swiftly now, I think we can all start to breathe a bit easier!

[JD01]

Alison - I actually quite like the acoustic sound you're getting on this. You've pretty much got a holy grail guitar there.
Your timing is slightly off in a few spots, but it doesn't matter at all on this recording.
I wouldn't do anything to this - think it works really well.
Vocal is cracking is always.

Is this your "end of covid is in sight" song?

@CrowsofFritz I'm always pleased with my acoustic sound - I use a Mexican Martin about $1000s worth I think. I got it 2nd hand for £500. Just point a condenser at the 15th fret and I'm done.

Thank you, JD. I did go in and fix a couple of timing issues (they were bugging me!) and worked on the end so it doesn't quite sound like I'm off to the races .
I've had this guitar since the early '70s. We've been through a lot together! You got lucky finding yours, I bought mine new! Took forever to pay it off.

This is the first time I've attempted any kind of "lead" work so, I'm pretty happy with it! And, yes, it's my "end is near" song. I know it's not over by any means but with vaccines rolling out swiftly now, I think we can all start to breathe a bit easier!

No worries. You got lucky with that one. A 40 odd year old D28 is a pretty prized possession now. Mine is just a Mexican one with laminate sides, but it sounds nice.

Try simplifying your mic technique as you experiment. I always find more unusual techniques like micing behind the bridge and stuff are ways of adding a bit of spice or fixing problems. Try and get a good basic sound with one mic and then add more from there if you think you need it. That being said, I like the sound you've got.

[vomitHatSteve]

Certainly better acoustic tone than I've ever gotten.

Mix wise, the hard left lead is popping out of the mix a little bit. It sounds way off by itself.

Very pretty song.

[rayc]

REALLY nice acoustic tones. The backing is subdued - as fits the song.
The left lead does sound a little further off than the right.
LOVE the vocals.

[WhiskeyJack]

I wouldn't change a god dam thing with this mix. I love the sound of the acoustics for what they are and exactly as is. Just sounds like organic porch playing and i think the textures and sounds are mint. Could you improve it a bit with some different mic set ups and mix techniques? Sure! Any song is going ot be that way at the end of the day. But the feel / vibe of the song needs this sound i think . Whether it was something you aimed for or just ended up getting. It works. It's a win. Mission accomplished

Fantastic Song Alison!! It feels pointless to comment on your vocals as they almost always seem like homeruns the last few songs you have put up. Really really like how you had the backing harmonies mixed here.

[Alison]

@JD01 experimenting is a great idea. . .I had read a lot about 2 mic placements for acoustics, 1 behind the bridge, 1 up the fingerboard but not too far from the soundhole, so that's what I used. May have had them a tad close but, I think I got lucky!

@vomitHatSteve thanks for the suggestion, I have moved the left lead closer and it has made a big difference.

@rayc thank you! I have moved the left lead a bit and it does sound better!

@WhiskeyJack Thank you! Got the idea for the song while walking my dog, Hobbs. Walks can be so inspiring!

Thanks for all the input, guys, I really appreciate it!

[CeeBee]

Lovely

[Greg_L]

Wow that's some good vocals.

As good as the vocal performance is I don't think it sits in the mix very well. The panned guitars sound huge and full, no problem there, but I think they overpower the vocals. And it's not really that the vocals aren't loud enough, they just sound small. There's no "air" in the vocals. It's like they were recorded into a tape recorder compared to the guitars. Sonically the vocal track doesn't come anywhere near the big balanced 3D sound of the guitars. The main vocal track is very focused and centered like it's coming from this tiny little spot in the stereo field and it just stays there. So having said all that...I think you should strip the vocal tracks back to nothing and go big. Get some more low end and top end in the vocals and give them a wide stereo reverb so it fills out to meet the guitars. And I don't mean huge echo chamber reverb that sounds like a seashell, but something subtle yet wide that will give air and space to the vocals.

And on the plus side...none of this would matter if the guitars didn't sound so good. But they do, so the vocals need to sound as good or better.

[musicturtle]

@Alison great song. I really like it so I am going to nitpick a bit.

Their are two spots where the BG vox sound out of time with the lead, ​on the word "roam" in the first chorus and the first pass of the last chorus

Also after the solo when you sing "you & I have cried" the BG vox sounds like you started to sing the word "have" and then stopped.

You have some great sounds here, I love the guitars.

[Alison]

Wow that's some good vocals.

As good as the vocal performance is I don't think it sits in the mix very well. The panned guitars sound huge and full, no problem there, but I think they overpower the vocals. And it's not really that the vocals aren't loud enough, they just sound small. There's no "air" in the vocals. It's like they were recorded into a tape recorder compared to the guitars. Sonically the vocal track doesn't come anywhere near the big balanced 3D sound of the guitars. The main vocal track is very focused and centered like it's coming from this tiny little spot in the stereo field and it just stays there. So having said all that...I think you should strip the vocal tracks back to nothing and go big. Get some more low end and top end in the vocals and give them a wide stereo reverb so it fills out to meet the guitars. And I don't mean huge echo chamber reverb that sounds like a seashell, but something subtle yet wide that will give air and space to the vocals.

And on the plus side...none of this would matter if the guitars didn't sound so good. But they do, so the vocals need to sound as good or better.

Thank you, Greg! I did address the vocals a bit, changed the reverb, and pulled the lead guitar back a bit during the second verse. I think they do sit a bit better. I think my treatment in the master has them sitting a bit better too. Thanks for the input, totally appreciate it!
As for the guitars. . .that was my biggest worry yet they seem to be doing okay. . .first time I've attempted a sound like this (beginners luck?) It's funny how such a simple song can be so difficult!

[Alison]

@Alison great song. I really like it so I am going to nitpick a bit.

Their are two spots where the BG vox sound out of time with the lead, ​on the word "roam" in the first chorus and the first pass of the last chorus

Also after the solo when you sing "you & I have cried" the BG vox sounds like you started to sing the word "have" and then stopped.

You have some great sounds here, I love the guitars.

Thank you! Yes, that was bothering me too. . .fixed it! So glad you like the song. Thank you for nitpicking

[TripleM]

Yeah I think all the recordings sound terrific.

I think another aspect to what Greg noted is that the two guitar parts, wide panned, give them a real big feel. The vocal sits in the middle and has to compete for attention with their bigness. If that makes sense.

Maybe track one guitar part, but record it in stereo (if possible)? Just a thought.

But the recording quality is terrific.

Oops heard some background noise at 4:46.