Mis August

[rayc]

I decided to do a song based around my Harley Benton 12 Electric.
It gave me the chance to try different tones and amounts of Marshall meat but, basically, it doesn't do crunch very well.
I have clean, light crunch, Big Muff and in between tones on this thing BUT the clean with sparkle/spring reverb seem to be home to the guitar.
Musically it's two keys - one for verses and one for choruses..still experimenting to find a home key.
Still struggling to approximate notes.
I completely rewrote the verses this morning so had to re-sing them, (they're the odd melody that starts spoken word , and haven't settled on a decent vocal or vocal comp yet.
Melody...sort of...guitar solo...sort of - just playing part of the melody.
I retracked the bass today but haven't nailed the tone of it quite yet.
ANY and all suggestions welcome.
Oh, the verses certainly aren't my style of melody.

AUGHAZYObc.mp3

Dumped the BIAB gospel vocals, retracked a few phrases here n there.

AUGHAZYPb.mp3

Restructured some dynamics and retrack the verse vocal

AUGHAZYQb.mp3

Replaced the busy strum as suggested by TripleM, brought down the cymbals as recommended by VomitHatSteve and worked on the 'soft" vocals as proposed by Armistice. I replaced the solo with one through a hot Marshall..thought that doesn't translate so well with a 12 string. I also had to lift the synthy sounds in the section where I replaced the strum as the new guitars left too much space.

AUGHAZYRbcgd16.mp3

This is about as tidy as I can get it I think...

AUGHAZYSf.mp3

I THINK this is about done.
Two mixes - one with vocal reverb and one without.
Preference?
WITH

AUGHAZYTrev.mp3

WITHOUT

AUGHAZYTnorev.mp3

MASTERED
BUT which one?
I had my most recent track mastered. I did wait for comments and reactions to the last mixes for a week but became bored, finished the song to my ear/taste and sent it to my usual M.E. I actually sent two mixes..one with a much heavier bottom end and one not so. Fran worked on both. Here they are.

MST Miss August.mp3

&

MST 2 miss august -2.mp3

Any preference?

THANKS folks,
MST 2 wins the vote.
I has sent #1 to the ME and he recommended reducing compression on the rhythm section as well as pulling it down a couple of dB. he also offered to master both, at no extra cost, so that I could hear the difference and make my own choice.

LYRICS...
Chorus
There’s no way that you can see
There’s no way that you can tell
There’s no one to comfort you
There’s no one you can compel
There’s no debt you can repay
There’s safe or easy play
There’s no place to hide away

Verse
This is really happening
It’s not what you fear
They’re just your obsessions
Coming too near
It is mainly chemical
It will fade away
It is your subconscious
Here for the day

Chorus
There’s no one that you can be
There’s no one that you can change
There’s no way to be your light
There’s no way to re-arrange
There’s no drug resets your mind
There’s no pathway for the blind
There’s no saviour you will find

Verse
It’s not really permanent
It’s not every day
Now try to run with it
You’ll soon be okay.
It is part of who you are
It will come again
It’s you who must live like this
No peace from the pain

Chorus
There’s no exit to the light
There’s no hidden special clue
There’s no one to lead you right
There’s no one to comfort you
There’s no inside creeping out
There’s no secret roundabout
There’s no cure for your doubt

Short verse
It’s not taking over
It’s not all you are
It’s part of the whole
Don’t take it too far.

SOLO

[vomitHatSteve]

I like the higher vocal parts on this one. It might serve your songs well to hang out in that register more.

Cymbals (hats probably?) get a little overwhelming as it goes

I like the clean tones in the beginning.

[rayc]

I like the higher vocal parts on this one. It might serve your songs well to hang out in that register more.

Cymbals (hats probably?) get a little overwhelming as it goes

I like the clean tones in the beginning.

Thanks Steve, I'll work on the drums slowly...they're a difficult thing as a stereo track.

[Armistice]

I think this would suit an almost spoken word style in the verse with the singing left for the chorus - and take this with a grain of salt, but your songs always seem to me to be so "Power chord, 2, 3, 4 power chord, 2, 3, 4, power chord, 2, 3. 4, power chord, 2, 3, 4 etc.." that they're tending to blur into one for me.

While you take the changes some interesting places, consider creating tension - perhaps next song - by making up a riff or sorts, or just staying on the one chord for a bit.

Also consider undrowning your voice in whatever effect you have on it so it can actually be heard more clearly - and when you can hear it more clearly, perhaps you can work out what to do to make it sound better. Most songs I do these days I have to fully track vocals at least twice, more often 3 times as the first attempt/s sound so damn awful that after getting over the initial period of loathing and "I'm never singing again!" I start to think "this would be better sung with more/less xxxx" or a different melody, or a different feel, or a different something.

I know you don't like the sound of your own voice - no-one does - but I don't think you're doing your songs any favours by regarding recording vocals as a necessary evil and "thank god that's done..." which is sort of the impression I get. Spend time with it, learn to work with it, and you may surprise yourself. And us.

I know this is not really relevant to your current tune, but give it some thought, maybe? I mean well...

[rayc]

I think this would suit an almost spoken word style in the verse with the singing left for the chorus - and take this with a grain of salt, but your songs always seem to me to be so "Power chord, 2, 3, 4 power chord, 2, 3, 4, power chord, 2, 3. 4, power chord, 2, 3, 4 etc.." that they're tending to blur into one for me.
While you take the changes some interesting places, consider creating tension - perhaps next song - by making up a riff or sorts, or just staying on the one chord for a bit.
Also consider undrowning your voice in whatever effect you have on it so it can actually be heard more clearly - and when you can hear it more clearly, perhaps you can work out what to do to make it sound better. Most songs I do these days I have to fully track vocals at least twice, more often 3 times as the first attempt/s sound so damn awful that after getting over the initial period of loathing and "I'm never singing again!" I start to think "this would be better sung with more/less xxxx" or a different melody, or a different feel, or a different something.
I know you don't like the sound of your own voice - no-one does - but I don't think you're doing your songs any favours by regarding recording vocals as a necessary evil and "thank god that's done..." which is sort of the impression I get. Spend time with it, learn to work with it, and you may surprise yourself. And us.
I know this is not really relevant to your current tune, but give it some thought, maybe? I mean well...

Thanks David,
This time I only played power chords when I couldn't play an open one, (usually every 2nd chord),...its in A major & F minor so some of the chords, (mainly the sharps/flats), that I can't do open or in F shape were power chorded. I played the changes differently in the verse of my last track, (Words Won't Do I doubt you've heard it), and was looking to move a little more slowly with this so I could work on a big problem...melody.
The only effect on the vocal at present, (other than EQ and comp as recommended), is a type and level of reverb I was recommended, very strongly, to have. I'm not keen on it being there personally so will happily ditch it as per your recommendation if that is the issue. There's some natural chorusing where I've, at this early stage of tracking/compiling, left two or more tracks running at the same time. The 1st vocal section is reasonably compiled and hasn't any reverb on it while the attempted melodic part is still being sorted and has reverb.
Are you suggesting the seemingly more melodic part should be spoken words from after the already spoken 1st phrase, or the other way around, (Just being certain...for this song I see the 1st part as chorus & the 2nd as verse)?
Again, thanks...I can work with your suggestions on this and future projects.

[Armistice]

I was sort of talking about in the future ray, rather than this song in particular - there's a certain sameness about most of your tunes structurally, is what I'm finding - it's what I call chord,2,3,4,chord,2,3,4, chord,2,3,4, chord 2,3,4 music- power or not - I'm merely encouraging you to think of perhaps widening your horizons a little in terms of the structure in future songs. Sit

In your best stuff, you create a sense of tension, usually when you come up with a great chord sequence - as I said, you come up with some really interesting ones, but there's not enough light and shade in the overall palette you're drawing from (IMO, obs ) - for instance, in this song, you could drop the intensity in what we're calling the chorus - sort of invert the verse soft / chorus loud paradigm - worth thinking about.

Maybe it's double tracking your voice or whatever you'd doing that's getting me - it's never quite clear and always quite strident sounding, and it smacks of the "I hate my voice so I'm going to minimise it" thing that we all go through. For instance, singing loudly is one of my personal sins - my voice sounds better when I go softer, maybe yours will too? You'd be surprised how softly Richard sang with the Jongleurs stuff - and he can belt, no problems, but generally, even live, the verses were really softly sung - if we ever did actual unplugged stuff I had to really hold back on the harmonies or I'd drown him out.

I'm merely encouraging you, in the future, now that you've decided to sing on your own stuff, to experiment at bit more with your voice - you'll spend hours trying to get your guitar sounds right, so maybe a bit of time invested in your voice, and your singing method, may pay dividends.

So I guess this is not useful for your current song, it's merely suggestions for the future. And like I said, take it with a pinch of salt if you like. And I know the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but I do mean well.

[rayc]

...for instance, in this song, you could drop the intensity in what we're calling the chorus - sort of invert the verse soft / chorus loud paradigm -
Maybe it's double tracking your voice or whatever you'd doing that's getting me - it's never quite clear and always quite strident sounding, and it smacks of the "I hate my voice so I'm going to minimise it" thing that we all go through. For instance, singing loudly is one of my personal sins - my voice sounds better when I go softer, maybe yours will too? You'd be surprised how softly Richard sang with the Jongleurs stuff - and he can belt, no problems, but generally, even live, the verses were really softly sung - if we ever did actual unplugged stuff I had to really hold back on the harmonies or I'd drown him out.
I'm merely encouraging you, in the future, now that you've decided to sing on your own stuff, to experiment at bit more with your voice - you'll spend hours trying to get your guitar sounds right, so maybe a bit of time invested in your voice, and your singing method, may pay dividends.

David, yeah, I read and accepted your comments/suggestions.
The inverse of Pixies/Nirvana soft loud is interesting - I'll try it.
Strident and loud...yeah...across the last few songs folk have told me to sing louder/belt out which I've been trying to do. I'm not far enough along to find the middle ground yet but will seek it.
Sadly I didn't decide to sing my own stuff...I wasn't able to hog tie anyone to do the last few and had no option. Good singers "sell" a song better and, in my situation usually have better melodic ideas as well.
I can and will work from your suggestions..they're common sense and from a song writer and singer's perspective so are useful.
Thanks.

[rayc]

[mention]Armistice[/mention]
David, I've restructured the dynamics basically as you suggested - though I did also beef up the big muffed guitar in the "bridge" part as well.
I retracked the verse vocal softly.
The 1st couple of times were still aggressive/strident sounding so swapped mics and the next two goes were better, (1st was AT2020 & 2nd was Focusrite CM25).
The verse vocal is one take and no de-essing etc and NO reverb.
The softer I sing the more fluctuation of my approximate note I fear.
[mention]vomitHatSteve[/mention] ,
I've lowered the top end of the drums in the most offensive section - I think. Please let me know if it's enough or in the right place.

[vomitHatSteve]

I hear the hats coming down on the second chorus (pre chorus?), but they're still pretty overwhelming on the 2nd verse.

[TripleM]

i like the cadence of the vocal lines in the verses. That was cool.

To me the rhythm guitar part(s) is to busy. It's pulling attention away from the vocal. The chimey/chorusy tone isn't helping. In all, the mix is a little soupy - too much sloshing together. Just my opinion.

I think I like the drums sound. At first I thought the snare was a little too cap-gun like. But by the end of the song I liked it.

I like the feedback stufff at the end.

[rayc]

I hear the hats coming down on the second chorus (pre chorus?), but they're still pretty overwhelming on the 2nd verse.

Thanks Steve - I'll fix that.

[rayc]

i like the cadence of the vocal lines in the verses. That was cool.
To me the rhythm guitar part(s) is to busy. It's pulling attention away from the vocal. The chimey/chorusy tone isn't helping. In all, the mix is a little soupy - too much sloshing together. Just my opinion.
I think I like the drums sound. At first I thought the snare was a little too cap-gun like. But by the end of the song I liked it.
I like the feedback stufff at the end.

Thanks [mention]TripleM[/mention] ,
Chimey/chorusy tone is 12 string though...I've not done anything to enhance but I'm trying to make this a decent demo of my cheapie 12.
I'll look at making the guitars less busy?

[rayc]

MASTERED version/s in the O.P.

[vomitHatSteve]

I think I like the second master better. The bass (instrument) kind of overpowers in the first.

[WhiskeyJack]

My ears prefer MST2 [mention]rayc[/mention]

I missed this one entirely again. I really like your vocals ray. they have come a long way. fun and exciting song to listen too.

My vote is for MST2.

[Alison]

Cool song, I like the spacey feel to it. Kind of like being in limbo. . . I like the first master best. Your voice is clearer and I can hear the drums and bass a lot more. Guess I'm a drums and bass gal

[JD01]

Ray - is this one done and dusted now? There's loads of mixes up and I'm not sure which one to listen to

[rayc]

Ray - is this one done and dusted now? There's loads of mixes up and I'm not sure which one to listen to

James, the ones tagged MST are the done ones.