The Jongleurs Remix Project 1 - Camouflage

[Armistice]

So when we released our album 5 years ago we both thought it was a cracking effort. I was the engineer/producer - Richard isn't much into that and basically left me alone with it. These days I listen to it and just hear the effects of all the things I didn't understand about mixing/recording back then.

And I never wanted to be the guy who endlessly remixed/remastered their history, but these are good songs, and they deserve better quality, so I'm going to. Haven't told Richard yet - I'll get a few done first, I think.

This is the first one, probably my favourite of HIS songs - Camouflage - track 2 on the album. I wanted to start on one of his so I wasn't distracted by my singing...

Now, I have been going back and forth, off-board, with this one for a week or more with [mention]Bubba[/mention] who's been exceptionally helpful with refining the mix, and I think we're both now pretty happy with it, but I'll chuck it up here so you can have a listen and see if anyone has any further suggestions.

NOW.... it's a remix. I can't add new things or subtract existing things - I'm purely working in the realm of EQ, compression, effects, mixing and mastering BUT I have replaced the sucky Addictive Drums of the original songs with better quality Slate drums I've been using since.

I'm tempted to put the album mix up as well for comparison but that's sort of missing the point - I need these to sound OK as they are, and you guys - except [mention]rayc[/mention] - largely missed that period of my creative output anyway. It's something TRR hasn't had much of - acoustic based folk/pop - hopefully you'll find it a nice change...

So here goes the first... (the version number is for Bubba's benefit)

LATER MIX DOWN BELOW - v6


When complete I'll zip the lot up and put a link somewhere for anyone who wants to update their existing files, or just wants a copy now.

[rayc]

A cool song and a fabulous arrangement. The bass strikes me a little hard nosed. That is, I think, due to headphones...I reckon it'd sound right in a living room.
Ignore me...I think it's excellent though.

[Bubba]

It's sounding very good, David. Is it me, or is the snare a little louder/brighter in this than in the version I was listening to last night? It's verging on being a little obtrusive, for me. This sounds similar to a commercial mix, now. I would take the snare down a notch still, though, either reducing the smack or just the overall volume - it doesn't need to drive this type of song, just accompany it.

EDIT: I listened to the V4 mix from last night and the snare is definitely louder, now. For my taste, I would say it's poking out a little too much. Other aspects of the mix have improved in V5 overall, though.

[CeeBee]

A very nice arrangement, a cool song, something like the stuff I would like to do if I ever get that good. That said, after listening on two headphones I have to agree with Ray about the bass. It is a stark contrast to the smooth vocals and mellow guitars. Maybe you could soften it during the softer parts and leave it when it gets louder. It sounds great in the solo bit.

[vomitHatSteve]

This version feels really vocal forward. Robert's voice is super loud and kinda processed sounding. I feel like the two of your voices blend less than they did in the original.

The instruments sound good

[WhiskeyJack]

How does one go about a/bing with the old one? Links to the old?

[Armistice]

OK - thanks all - I have done a few minor tweaks.

The bass had a slightly different and duller EQ curve in the original and in the remix was perhaps up in the mix a bit more, I thought it was a little too far back originally, but I've nipped it back a touch anyway and taken some highs off it.

Ducked the lead vocals in a touch - I've done EQing on them to try to reign in some of the harshness but no additional processing - bar a different reverb.

I think what's happened here is that I've cleared some of the guitar murk away and that's revealed differences in other things. My prime aim is to get it sounding as good as I can to someone who hasn't heard the original, but I'll add the original in below if you want to A/B [mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention] .





And did I say 5 years? More than 6 - how time flies.

[TripleM]

I went straight to v6.

The acoustic guitars sound lush. Very nice. Clean electric has a good sound too. I like the palm muted part.

Bass is a little low in the mix and has a slightly "sterile" sound to it. Nothing super-bad. I'd like just a little warmer tone.

Drums sound good.

Vocals sound good. The reverb on them is noticeably dryer than the other tracks. It bugged me for a while, but after a minute or so I think I liked it the way it is. When the vocal starts to sing with more energy (like at 1:24) it doesn't get louder. LIke there was a volume fader ride. I'd like it to get a little louder in that section. Or have it quieter in the other spots.

And it's much better than the 5-year old version.

[vomitHatSteve]

How does one go about a/bing with the old one? Links to the old?

There's a Spotify playlist called The Recording Rebels Discography. It's on there.

Listening back to the old one, I can hear the vocal harshness that I hadn't noticed before. I still feel like the old version sounds "warmer", but one man's warmth is another's mud.

[WhiskeyJack]

How does one go about a/bing with the old one? Links to the old?

There's a Spotify playlist called The Recording Rebels Discography. It's on there.

ffs

[WhiskeyJack]

OK - thanks all - I have done a few minor tweaks.

The bass had a slightly different and duller EQ curve in the original and in the remix was perhaps up in the mix a bit more, I thought it was a little too far back originally, but I've nipped it back a touch anyway and taken some highs off it.

Ducked the lead vocals in a touch - I've done EQing on them to try to reign in some of the harshness but no additional processing - bar a different reverb.

I think what's happened here is that I've cleared some of the guitar murk away and that's revealed differences in other things. My prime aim is to get it sounding as good as I can to someone who hasn't heard the original, but I'll add the original in below if you want to A/B @WhiskeyJack .



02_Camouflage_2020_Remix v6.mp3

And did I say 5 years? More than 6 - how time flies.

02_Camouflage.mp3

I like the new version. nice separation on everything i can make out all the pieces and nothing seems to be running into the other things. it has lost a bit of warmth in that transition from old to new but on it's own there is nothing at all wrong with it and is a vast improvement.

Good job dude. I like it for what it represents from Tthat was then this is now" kind of thing.

[Bubba]

I think there is scope for re-introducing a little warmth to the acoustics once a few more mixes are in the can, but the A/B improvements in clarity 0f the mix are night and day.

[Armistice]

It's been an interesting exercise - clearing up the guitars, because there are always so many in our tunes - is letting other stuff through that was a little masked before. There is very little difference in the bass tone from old to new - when you're just listening to the bass tone on solo - but you can hear it in the mix.

And I can tell you, if you take the original mix and turn it up loud in a car, you'll quickly turn it down again because of that mid build up.

Other interesting point for me is that every single one of these songs went up on the HR clinic and was heavily remixed based on feedback there to get to their "final" point - and it's only since doing Honey Hunters that I've developed the ability to not hear, but understand, the flaws I'm now trying to correct.

So I'll can this for now - I've done a bit more based on your feedbacks but I'll just keep it all aside until I have a few of them done and I can start cross-comparisons.

Should be #2 next week sometime. 8 guitar parts - 3 of which are dual miked stereo - yikes - what was I thinking...

[rayc]

Nice, clear mix.
There're a very few instances of sibilant sounds that grabbed my attention one very early on.
That's me though.

[JD01]

I'm going straight in listening to V6.
Basically no comments on this really - could possibly bring up the bass guitar a hair, but then I've said that about your mixes before. I think I just like a louder bass than you. There seems to be a slight resonance/build up when Richard holds longer low notes. I'm only listening on a single pair of cans though, but it sounds like something that would be annoying and jump out and be irritating in my car... have a listen on a few systems to see if its there.