How to deal with low end

[liv_rong]

Alright ya'll, I had this posted in my idea thread but now its time for me to do some learning! I am struggling with dealing with low end in all of my mixes. I like the guitar tones and drums well enough, but the bass is lacking. By a lot. How do I get it to standout more? It's not very defined here. It sounds ok I guess during the more simple sections, but the "busy" fill kind of part in the verse section is difficult to make out. Where do I start? What do you recommend?

Thanks!

[rayc]

Competition with the guitar and drums is always part of the problem.
There are a few old EQ tricks to try such as the Motwon bass enhancer and simply putting a narrow peak where the bass has some growl for definition.
Motown "hard" bass: 34Hz brought way down, 63Hz down several db, 125/250Hz boosted.
&
"Motown disk cutting was brickwalled @ 70hz, letting the 1st harmonic of the low E on bass (80Hz) be the lowest note on the record, as they found that the 1st harmonic & fundamental @ 40Hz were about equally loud & prominent during their testing. They often Boosted 100 & 200 (sometimes 300) to keep the bass line clear & defined, and also added more energy from 2-15k compared to other bands of the era.
as well as
SUPERT - Start by rolling all the bottom off (from 100Hz and lower) then use the
"low-mid" E.Q. to find the bass sound you want. Then slowly dial back the
low frequencies to taste. Most of the "punch" comes from the "low-mid"
range.
BEATLE BASS - Boost 100Hz by 2 or 3dB, (if you don't use a pick then boost
3kHz by 3 to 6dB.)
SILLY LOVE TONE (McCartney) - (Similar to Beatle Bass with more warmth.)
Boost 100Hz by a few dB then boost 500Hz by 6dB or so. Cut 300Hz by about
3dB and cut 12kHz by 6dB. [Good for ballads, rockin' blues or shuffle.]
BASS IN YOUR FACE (Aggressive John Entwistle sound.) - Boost 1 to 2 kHz by 6
to 9dB. Cut 200Hz by 6dB. For more "brittle" sound cut 100Hz by 2 or 3dB.
This will help a busy bass line to slice through the mix.
TWANG THANG (C&W"ish") - To accentuate "twang" : Cut 200 to 250Hz by 6dB or
so. (Good for reducing "mud".) Boost equivalent amount of 1kHz for "twang".
Boost 100Hz by 1 or 2dB.
MO-BETTER MOTOWN (OR REGGAE) - (Smooth muted tone.) Cut 1kHz by 5 or 6dB.
Boost 200Hz by 3dB. Boost 100Hz slightly. Cut high end ("hi eq") by 6dB or
so. For "reggae" sound - boost a few more "dB's" of "low end".
MOTOWN (More punchy and aggressive.) - As above but instead of cutting 1kHz,
cut 5kHz by 6dB or more. (Both the "mo-better motown" & "motown" sounds work
nicely in a mix cluttered with mid-range elements such as guitar, piano &
horns.)
JACO JAZZ (Jazz sound) (also good for fretless bass) - Boost 1kHz by 6dB or
so. Cut 200Hz by as much as 9dB or more. Boost 100Hz by 1 or 2dB. Cut 12kHz
("hi eq") by 1 or 2dB. For "Marcus Miller" sound - cut at 800Hz rather than
200Hz.

I often cut 100Hz by a narrow 5Db, boost 200 by the same and throw in a small, narrow peak where the string/growl/attack noises are.

[Lt. Bob]

wow .... nice tutorial Ray.

I can't add much to that except to note that in most of those the very lowest freqs are actually cut rather than boosted.

usually if you want more note definition from the bass it's gonna be in the lower midrange with a bit of a boost anywhere from 150hz-500hz.
And personally, I often add some around 3k even though that competes with the git.

But ray has written out an awesome treatise on bass EQing and I'm gonna print it out for safe keeping in the studio.

ya' know who else gets great bass sound?
Greg ..... hopefully he'll chime in too.

[Tadpui]

Even after all of these years, I still struggle with the low end of mixes. And the low-mids. And the mids. And the highs. I guess I just struggle with mixes

The room that you're mixing in can really jack with how you hear the low end. I think that's my main struggle. Even with a fair amount of broadband trapping, my small room can still tell some harmful lies about what the low end really sounds like. So I still check my mixes on a few different systems to hone in on anything that's out of whack.

[rayc]

wow .... nice tutorial Ray.
But ray has written out an awesome treatise on bass EQing and I'm gonna print it out for safe keeping in the studio.
ya' know who else gets great bass sound?
Greg ..... hopefully he'll chime in too.

Lt Bob,
I scrounged around for years and those are, largely, direct quotes from articles about or by people in Motown's production side in the "good old days".
I agree with the 3K boost - that was a given for me as that's where my bass shows its definition.
Using the stuff in that set plus trying to listen has been my guide for yonks.

[TripleM]

Yep there is a lot of low end. I couple of things I might consider.

1. There is a lot of reverb. You can get away with cutting a whole lot of low end out of the reverb signal. Like up to 400-500hz and it will still sound nice. That might clear some low end up.

2. You could roll off quite a bit of low from the main clean guitar - maybe up in to the mid-100hz range. I think it would sound better if it were a little lighter sounding.

3. The kick is very heavy. You could again roll off quite a bit of the low end.

[liv_rong]

Competition with the guitar and drums is always part of the problem.
There are a few old EQ tricks to try such as the Motwon bass enhancer and simply putting a narrow peak where the bass has some growl for definition.
Motown "hard" bass: 34Hz brought way down, 63Hz down several db, 125/250Hz boosted.
&
"Motown disk cutting was brickwalled @ 70hz, letting the 1st harmonic of the low E on bass (80Hz) be the lowest note on the record, as they found that the 1st harmonic & fundamental @ 40Hz were about equally loud & prominent during their testing. They often Boosted 100 & 200 (sometimes 300) to keep the bass line clear & defined, and also added more energy from 2-15k compared to other bands of the era.
as well as
SUPERT - Start by rolling all the bottom off (from 100Hz and lower) then use the
"low-mid" E.Q. to find the bass sound you want. Then slowly dial back the
low frequencies to taste. Most of the "punch" comes from the "low-mid"
range.
BEATLE BASS - Boost 100Hz by 2 or 3dB, (if you don't use a pick then boost
3kHz by 3 to 6dB.)
SILLY LOVE TONE (McCartney) - (Similar to Beatle Bass with more warmth.)
Boost 100Hz by a few dB then boost 500Hz by 6dB or so. Cut 300Hz by about
3dB and cut 12kHz by 6dB. [Good for ballads, rockin' blues or shuffle.]
BASS IN YOUR FACE (Aggressive John Entwistle sound.) - Boost 1 to 2 kHz by 6
to 9dB. Cut 200Hz by 6dB. For more "brittle" sound cut 100Hz by 2 or 3dB.
This will help a busy bass line to slice through the mix.
TWANG THANG (C&W"ish") - To accentuate "twang" : Cut 200 to 250Hz by 6dB or
so. (Good for reducing "mud".) Boost equivalent amount of 1kHz for "twang".
Boost 100Hz by 1 or 2dB.
MO-BETTER MOTOWN (OR REGGAE) - (Smooth muted tone.) Cut 1kHz by 5 or 6dB.
Boost 200Hz by 3dB. Boost 100Hz slightly. Cut high end ("hi eq") by 6dB or
so. For "reggae" sound - boost a few more "dB's" of "low end".
MOTOWN (More punchy and aggressive.) - As above but instead of cutting 1kHz,
cut 5kHz by 6dB or more. (Both the "mo-better motown" & "motown" sounds work
nicely in a mix cluttered with mid-range elements such as guitar, piano &
horns.)
JACO JAZZ (Jazz sound) (also good for fretless bass) - Boost 1kHz by 6dB or
so. Cut 200Hz by as much as 9dB or more. Boost 100Hz by 1 or 2dB. Cut 12kHz
("hi eq") by 1 or 2dB. For "Marcus Miller" sound - cut at 800Hz rather than
200Hz.

I often cut 100Hz by a narrow 5Db, boost 200 by the same and throw in a small, narrow peak where the string/growl/attack noises are.

Wow, that's extensive, thanks!

Yep there is a lot of low end. I couple of things I might consider.

1. There is a lot of reverb. You can get away with cutting a whole lot of low end out of the reverb signal. Like up to 400-500hz and it will still sound nice. That might clear some low end up.

2. You could roll off quite a bit of low from the main clean guitar - maybe up in to the mid-100hz range. I think it would sound better if it were a little lighter sounding.

3. The kick is very heavy. You could again roll off quite a bit of the low end.

Thanks! All that reverb on both guitars comes from pedals, maybe I should brighten those up a bit more when I track them.

I may have asked you this before, I cant remember, but where are you located? It appears awe are pretty close. I live in Des Plaines.

[JD01]

Similar to MMM said.
Are you using a reverb impulse on any of this? If so, try EQing the bottom end out of the reverb impulse. Reverb on your drums?
I know you love your massive reverb and delay pedals. Possible way of EQing the reverb on these? Or maybe just having careful high pass on your guitar buss.

[liv_rong]

Similar to MMM said.
Are you using a reverb impulse on any of this? If so, try EQing the bottom end out of the reverb impulse. Reverb on your drums?
I know you love your massive reverb and delay pedals. Possible way of EQing the reverb on these? Or maybe just having careful high pass on your guitar buss.

Yeah all pedals, so a high pass or other eq on the guitars is all I can do. No verb on my drums, except I double my snare track and use a reverb on one of those, lightly. Seems to help it pop out a bit more.