Silent Waltz - Greg/Bubba: probably not for your ears

[rayc]

Hello Folks,
I resurrected and almost completely reworked another song written and performed by my former cello tutor & I.
She's the one who's voice Gerry carefully pitch corrected for me a while back.
This has cellos - she does the good ones I do the bad ones. 12 Fender & 6 string 333 acoustics & bass played by me.
BIAB drums added - I had to do a LOT of editing of the drum track because the original, via my Roland TR505, has lots of variation.
There're snippets of organ in one version and organ as a "pad" throughout the other.
Two mixes ...
The Original mix with organ throughout

MST sw cello orig mix.mp3

&

MST SW b.mp3

A remix with far less organ and some instruments placed differently - particularly in Gerry's lovely solo.
No auto tune but it is THAT voice - though this time much more in tune.
This is more a case of which, if any, you prefer as I'm done with them & can't decide.

[Bubba]

Is this reverse psychology, Ray?

[rayc]

Is this reverse psychology, Ray?

B=Now Bubba, would I stoop to that?

[JD01]

Not been commenting much recently 'cos I've not really been listening in Stereo as my ears have been a bit fucked - feeling a little better this morning.
The intro bit is pretty cool, love the unexpected bass run that comes in.
The vocal isn't sitting in the mix at all well though I don't think (listening on my reference cans) and they're quiet loud. Are they sound really dry compared with everything else.

Think the drums are too quiet - to be honest, I barely noticed when they came in. They're almost inaudible!
The guitar solo section is cool, bit abrupt, but that doesn't matter. Sounds like something of the one of the odd Floyd albums before they did Darkside, something like Obscured By Clouds.

[Bubba]

I know you warned me off of this, Ray but I listened anyway because a have a distinct streak of masochism, I think. This crit is based on the first mix.

The pitch correction doesn't seem too distracting but it IS very obvious. The singer has a "head voice" tone that is quite middly with neither resonance below or bite above. She would suit ethereal backing vocals rather than a lead, I think. The unnaturalness of the pitching gives her an artificial Dolores O'Riordan feel that I would like if it was real. Gerry's guitar bits are really nice. The acoustic guitars sound good.I really like the cellos.

Overall, this is a pleasant, melodic composition and I like it. That said, I hear a lot of faults and I hope you don't mind if I pick them out? Firstly, as JD said, the drums are way too quiet and the bass is way too "big". The bass is big both in loudness and in fullness, you have to carve that back a bit. These things are just mix problems and can be easily corrected.

One thing that can't be easily corrected is the numerous timing errors, though. If you bring the drums up those timing errors may stick out like a sore thumb. I think you may have to re-track.

Listening again, I think the errors are in the drum track. They sound very off in places.

I've listened to both mixes now and I prefer the first.

[rayc]

I know you warned me off of this, Ray but I listened anyway because a have a distinct streak of masochism, I think. This crit is based on the first mix.
One thing that can't be easily corrected is the numerous timing errors, though. If you bring the drums up those timing errors may stick out like a sore thumb. I think you may have to re-track.
Listening again, I think the errors are in the drum track. They sound very off in places.

Bubba,
Thanks for the detail listen & comments.
I really appreciate the time and suggestions/critique.
The drums are "off". Sadly the vocals and cellos, basically what remains of the original recording, were done to a drum machine track that had serious wandering tempo. As a result I had to fit all new parts - everything else - to the wonky drums. I edited the news drum track to match the kick drum of the original and, yes, the drums are low mainly because of this.
I was going to keep the original drum machine track but is was just boom, tish, tish repeated forever.
I could re record my cello part but haven't seen Miriam for a decade so her cello and vocals can't be redone as far as I have no communication with her and, I recall from our last convo, she no longer has a cello.
There's no VST pitch correction this time around but as the vocals came from cassette 4 track they had some serious cleaning done, (about 5 years ago I think), which wasn't careful or cautious and artifacts abound from that process.
All of which means the tracking is what it is but the mixing is flexible.
Thanks mate.
I'll apply your suggestions and perspective with the next one.

[rayc]

The vocal isn't sitting in the mix at all well though I don't think (listening on my reference cans) and they're quiet loud. Are they sound really dry compared with everything else.
The guitar solo section is cool, bit abrupt, but that doesn't matter.

James,
thanks for taking the time mate.
I had to leave the vocals "dry" as they were recorded wet with reverb to tape. I had to try and match that original reverb, (outboard Microverb 3), for the rest of the song. Seems I matched it well enough to make the original appear to disappear.
Gerry's solo does have a nice Floydesqueness to it.
I'll keep your observations in mind.

[ido1957]

I cringe at the thought of trying to mix something off my old cassette 4 Tracks.
And it's not because of poor tape or recording quality (if you catch my drift).

[vomitHatSteve]

+1 on the comments on the vox. They sound really compressed and cranked up, and the pitch correction is obvious.

[rayc]

I cringe at the thought of trying to mix something off my old cassette 4 Tracks.
And it's not because of poor tape or recording quality (if you catch my drift).

A few years back - still in Cakewalk days, I transferred a lot of stuff from tape.
Sometimes it was pretty ugly.

[rayc]

+1 on the comments on the vox. They sound really compressed and cranked up, and the pitch correction is obvious.

Thanks re the levels & compression but I did explain it had been treated due to tape issues etc.
I'm certain there's no pitch correction on this. Unless I did something when I first transferred it.

[Bubba]

+1 on the comments on the vox. They sound really compressed and cranked up, and the pitch correction is obvious.

Thanks re the levels & compression but I did explain it had been treated due to tape issues etc.
I'm certain there's no pitch correction on this. Unless I did something when I first transferred it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this singer the one that couldn't carry a tune in a bucket? Pitchy as hell?

If this isn't autotuned I'll show me arse in Sainsbury's window.

[rayc]

Yep, this is the lass who required ladelsful of pitch correction on Sandpaper Castles 1811.
Gerry did the difficult work on that track.
This song, which was recorded a few months later, seemed to have been much more comfortable for her.

[rayc]

As mentioned in the original post...
"This is more a case of which, if any, you prefer as I'm done with them & can't decide."
Thanks folks - two votes for the 1st/original mix (Gerry voted off forum).
I know which to use for the video now.

[vomitHatSteve]

+1 on the comments on the vox. They sound really compressed and cranked up, and the pitch correction is obvious.

Thanks re the levels & compression but I did explain it had been treated due to tape issues etc.
I'm certain there's no pitch correction on this. Unless I did something when I first transferred it.

Sorry, I was in a bit of a rush and scrolled through the previous comments.

What's up with the vocals if they're not pitch-corrected? They're really affected.

[Lt. Bob]

I prefer the 2nd mix ..... 1st one seems super muddy to me

[rayc]

I prefer the 2nd mix ..... 1st one seems super muddy to me

Lt Bob,
thanks for listening & put your 2c in.
For interest's sake your suggestion echoes my thoughts.